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Old 08-09-2019, 09:54 AM #16
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I also tried the 4S test and the shudder was still there. This leads me to believe that it is not the torque converter as I think that in 4S it is not in lockup.
interesting..it appears you're correct..in 4S between 1st and 3rd gear, acceleration and deceleration flex lock-up are off.

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Old 08-12-2019, 10:16 AM #17
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Just got back from the dealership. Tech rode with me to see if we could get it to duplicate the problem..they have a service road used to check for driveability issues, went up and down it 3 or 4 times..nothing. When we got back, he said he'd check for any tranny software updates. There weren't any, but he did "reset" the transmission learned values (for whatever that's worth) and said to bring it back if the problem reoccurs.
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Old 09-06-2019, 10:55 AM #18
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Decided to start keeping a log of when the shudder occurs. I've noticed that it's apparent in the morning and mostly on the same stretch of surface road.

8/21/19 - Left for work 7:20 AM, ambient temp 75-78 degrees, felt minor shudder between 40 and 45 MPH, very light on the throttle

9/5/19 - Left for work 7:16 AM, ambient temp 78, same shudder at the same speed as before. Very light on the throttle.

What stands out to me is the part about being light on the throttle..wondering whether the pedal commander has something to do with it that I may not have noticed before..going to try turning it off and see whether there is any difference.
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Old 09-06-2019, 12:01 PM #19
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I have had the same issue with my 4R for a little while now. Here's my story. Mine is a 2011 Limited with 14x,xxx miles. I've owned it for about a year now. Same exact issue as far as not happening all the time, no shudder over about 50. I've spent about 8-10 hours personally under the vehicle checking U-joints, suspension mounts, basically anything and everything that moves or shouldn't move but might have worked itself loose. Finally after beating my head over the issue, I took mine into the 'stealership'. I took them for a test drive and replicated the issue for them multiple times. The way that I get mine to 'shudder' is by driving like a grandma. Very light on the gas while cruising in the 25-40 mph range. They looked it over and said it could possibly be the drive shaft being out of balance. They removed the rear driveshaft and drove it that way (AWD, so it can drive with just the front wheels). They still made the problem occur. They told me it's the torque converter and quoted me over $2,000 to replace it. So I parked the vehicle and have been riding my CBR for basically the entire summer. I got tired of riding there for about a week and drove the 4R and it seemed to have went away, but after a day or so the shudder came back. I think there's something to the torque converter idea.


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interesting..it appears you're correct..in 4S between 1st and 3rd gear, acceleration and deceleration flex lock-up are off.


Similar to yours, when I put the vehicle in 4S the problem is less pronounced. If you look at the graph, when in 4S, the acceleration Flex Lock-up is off, but the Deceleration Flex Lock-up is still on. I believe that is why the issue seems less pronounced. Like I said, my issue seems to happen the most, not when I am accelerating heavily, but when cruising and being very light on the gas (basically trying to up the fuel economy). I think that while being so light on the pedal, it is really difficult to tell whether the vehicle is actually accelerating or decelerating. Unfortunately for me, my vehicle is out of warranty. Yours isn't, I dunno, it just seems like the most likely possibility to me from my experience. I'm currently saving up to take mine to our trusted family mechanic to have the TC replaced and while he's in there flush the Trans and replace the filter because, why not? Definitely interested in what happens with your situation.

Good Luck!
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Old 09-06-2019, 02:53 PM #20
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I have had the same issue with my 4R for a little while now. Here's my story. Mine is a 2011 Limited with 14x,xxx miles. I've owned it for about a year now. Same exact issue as far as not happening all the time, no shudder over about 50. I've spent about 8-10 hours personally under the vehicle checking U-joints, suspension mounts, basically anything and everything that moves or shouldn't move but might have worked itself loose. Finally after beating my head over the issue, I took mine into the 'stealership'. I took them for a test drive and replicated the issue for them multiple times. The way that I get mine to 'shudder' is by driving like a grandma. Very light on the gas while cruising in the 25-40 mph range. They looked it over and said it could possibly be the drive shaft being out of balance. They removed the rear driveshaft and drove it that way (AWD, so it can drive with just the front wheels). They still made the problem occur. They told me it's the torque converter and quoted me over $2,000 to replace it. So I parked the vehicle and have been riding my CBR for basically the entire summer. I got tired of riding there for about a week and drove the 4R and it seemed to have went away, but after a day or so the shudder came back. I think there's something to the torque converter idea.



Similar to yours, when I put the vehicle in 4S the problem is less pronounced. If you look at the graph, when in 4S, the acceleration Flex Lock-up is off, but the Deceleration Flex Lock-up is still on. I believe that is why the issue seems less pronounced. Like I said, my issue seems to happen the most, not when I am accelerating heavily, but when cruising and being very light on the gas (basically trying to up the fuel economy). I think that while being so light on the pedal, it is really difficult to tell whether the vehicle is actually accelerating or decelerating. Unfortunately for me, my vehicle is out of warranty. Yours isn't, I dunno, it just seems like the most likely possibility to me from my experience. I'm currently saving up to take mine to our trusted family mechanic to have the TC replaced and while he's in there flush the Trans and replace the filter because, why not? Definitely interested in what happens with your situation.

Good Luck!
This is the one thing that's keeping me from loving my 4runner..when I road with the tech he said they get tons of complaints from new Tacoma owners about the way the tranny shifts, suggesting this problem really isn't that bad.

What you describe is identical to my issue, and you're 100% correct about the throttle input..that seems to be the key to getting it to shudder, and it's not shudder mid-shift but while in gear..Personally, I can't imagine it's related to the torque converter or anything mechanical for that matter.

Seems to me like it would be some sort of update to the shift parameters, but then why isn't the problem impacting more people? Maybe some of us are just more sensitive to it..I know a couple of people at my company that own newer 5th gen 4rs..Might ask to drive one of theirs to see what it does..
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Old 09-06-2019, 03:52 PM #21
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Very common issue in the 4th Gen as well, search for "rumble strip." There doesn't seem to be any silver bullet, some have focused on transmission issues, some on steering. The solution for my 4th gen was the transmission ECU; I was cleaning out my MAF and pulled the EFI fuses and the transmission ECU fuse by accident. Went away immediately after putting everything back together so IMO, the reset of the transmission ECU was the fix.
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Old 09-06-2019, 03:57 PM #22
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Do you get multiple shakes or a single shake? Does it happen when you apply the gas or let off the gas? I'm trying to see if I have the same problem.

With mine, I get a single jolt when I apply the gas. This usually happens in the 30mph to 40mph. Above or below those speeds I don't get the jolt. It seems like it happens when the torque converter locks up at low speeds.
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Old 09-06-2019, 04:01 PM #23
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Very common issue in the 4th Gen as well, search for "rumble strip." There doesn't seem to be any silver bullet, some have focused on transmission issues, some on steering. The solution for my 4th gen was the transmission ECU; I was cleaning out my MAF and pulled the EFI fuses and the transmission ECU fuse by accident. Went away immediately after putting everything back together so IMO, the reset of the transmission ECU was the fix.

when I took it to the dealership the tech said they reset the trannyy ECU so I'm assuming that is the equivalent of pulling the fuse. Didn't do anything in my case.
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Old 09-06-2019, 04:05 PM #24
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Do you get multiple shakes or a single shake? Does it happen when you apply the gas or let off the gas? I'm trying to see if I have the same problem.

With mine, I get a single jolt when I apply the gas. This usually happens in the 30mph to 40mph. Above or below those speeds I don't get the jolt. It seems like it happens when the torque converter locks up at low speeds.
usually the shudder is ongoing for a brief period, say a couple of hundred feet. For instance, I pull out of my neighborhood get up to 20, 30, then just over 40 (shudder) 50 no shudder, sometimes I can slow down then do back up to 40 and it doesn't do it..the inconsistency is the frustrating part. I don't experience any kind of jolt like what you describe.
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Old 09-06-2019, 06:47 PM #25
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usually the shudder is ongoing for a brief period, say a couple of hundred feet. For instance, I pull out of my neighborhood get up to 20, 30, then just over 40 (shudder) 50 no shudder, sometimes I can slow down then do back up to 40 and it doesn't do it..the inconsistency is the frustrating part. I don't experience any kind of jolt like what you describe.
Yes that sounds like a different problem than mine. Good luck to you. It's frustrating, I have take off shudder on my 2006 Tacoma since new. I've done all the TSB's and nothing has helped. I've been living with it for 13 years.
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Old 09-09-2019, 01:38 PM #26
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Since I first noticed the "intermittent" shudder, it seems to be less intermittent if that makes any sense. Almost to the point where I'm feeling it more frequently. Probably related to the fact that it occurs between the speeds that I most often travel at.

I'm certain that if it had been doing this when I initially test drove my 4R that I would have noticed..So what's changed?? Other than adding the pedal commander, the only other change was the new trail rims I put on back in April (with factory tires)..now I can't say for sure whether it was or was not doing it prior to the new wheels, so that might be a good starting point.

Having said that, as much as I'd like to think the solution will be as simple as the wheels or poorly balanced tires, it really feels to me like something in the drivetrain itself.

Going to make another appointment with the dealership, get the tech to do a ride-along and hopefully duplicate the problem, then have them check and rebalance the tires. stay tuned.
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Old 09-09-2019, 02:16 PM #27
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I notice it too with very light throttle application, usually on a hill, and only at speeds where any more throttle will elicit a downshift. It feels different than the steering wobble, which mine also has. It almost feels like lugging a manual transmission vehicle; being in too high a gear for the torque you're asking from the engine. I think it's just very conservative transmission tuning for the sake of fuel mileage, and I've learned to live with it. When it's more pronounced I'll force a downshift. I wish ECT Power was still a thing in the 5g.

Anyway, I don't see 4th and 5th gens with high mileage dying because of broken transmissions, so I've stopped worrying about it.
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:02 AM #28
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I notice it too with very light throttle application, usually on a hill, and only at speeds where any more throttle will elicit a downshift. It feels different than the steering wobble, which mine also has. It almost feels like lugging a manual transmission vehicle; being in too high a gear for the torque you're asking from the engine. I think it's just very conservative transmission tuning for the sake of fuel mileage, and I've learned to live with it. When it's more pronounced I'll force a downshift. I wish ECT Power was still a thing in the 5g.

Anyway, I don't see 4th and 5th gens with high mileage dying because of broken transmissions, so I've stopped worrying about it.
I have absolutely zero concern the tranny will fail. Bottom line, the shifting lacks refinement which seems like something Toyota could have easily addressed via a software change, especially for a 9-year-old platform.. I'd be willing to bet pretty much every single 4R has this same issue. Pretty clear the common theme is that it most often occurs under light throttle, which for me is probably 75% of my driving..No hills here in Florida, so unless I'm gunning it to get on the highway there aren't many times where I'm forcing a downshift.
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:17 AM #29
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I just traded my 2011 Limited in for a 2016 TRD PRO last Friday. Now, granted the new one only has 43,xxx miles, but there is no shudder. I canít make it happen for the life of me like I could do on command with my old truck.


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Old 09-10-2019, 10:38 AM #30
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I just traded my 2011 Limited in for a 2016 TRD PRO last Friday. Now, granted the new one only has 43,xxx miles, but there is no shudder. I can’t make it happen for the life of me like I could do on command with my old truck.


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Interesting, so you could get the '11 to do it but not the '16. Feel like it would be a good experiment to get a group of 5th gens together and do vehicle swap to see what the differences are.
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