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Old 08-06-2019, 10:10 AM #1
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BFG KO2 vs Nitto Terra Grappler G2 vs Falken Wildpeak AT3W

Yes, I searched extensively before posting this - please don't shoot me.

I drive: A Limited 4x4, no lift, had BFG KO2s (C-Rated) on for 25k miles

My driving habits: 95% on-road, off road is mostly trails and service roads for fishing or hiking. I'm picking up a 2019 soon and will be calling it quits on anything more advanced than those trails because I don't want to bang it up (again).


So, as noted above, I've had KO2s for 25k miles and my experience has been OK. I'm considering moving to the TG G2 for a few reasons and would like to hear from some other folks about their experiences. I am primarily curious about first hand experience with wet traction because I've seen complaints about both.

KO2 Pros:
- Compared to 20x7" wheels on the Limited, I went to the 17" Tundra/Sequoia wheels that are 7.5" wide and then adding an AT tire created a lot more stability on road. Turns don't feel as wobbly and the truck feels much more planted.
- Been great off road, never had a problem
- Look great
- Seem durable and have worn well, even with mostly on-road driving
- Never had problems getting them balanced

KO2 Cons:
- Harsh-ish ride
- Acceleration Lag due to the weight of the tires
- My truck broke in on these tires, so I don't have a baseline for MPG where I can say I've lost some efficiency, but I am sure I did
- Some extra road noise, but not bad


Overall, it probably looks like I've had a good experience with the KO2s, and I have, but I recently rode in another 4R that had the TG G2s and I could not believe how much smoother and more compliant they were on the road, as well as quieter. They rode like any other passenger rated tire but still look great and seem to offer mild off road ability.

I started doing some research on the G2s and saw folks mention that if you go with the P-rated tire, they are puncture-prone in rock crawling situations. I also saw a few complaints about poor wet traction, though many folks experience that with KO2s as well. I also read a few threads where people mentioned their KO2s wearing out shocks prematurely because they're a harder, heavier tire. I am weary of that because X-REAS is so expensive to replace. Has anyone seen or experienced any of these issues?

I am thinking of making a switch to the G2s because I'm giving up the more dedicated trail driving and could use some extra smoothness with on-road driving. If I recall correctly, the KO2 is also like 11-12lbs heavier than the G2, so switching would yield a reduction of almost 50 lbs of unsprung weight.

More on Falkens below.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.
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Last edited by Gecko; 08-10-2019 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 08-06-2019, 10:48 AM #2
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if you dont need the added durability of a c load tire, then i dont see why you wouldnt go back to a P rated tire for the reasons you mentioned. I had g1s on my previous car and i like them fine--they were quiet and were an upgrade from the goodyears that came on the vehicle for sure.
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Old 08-06-2019, 10:50 AM #3
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We had G2's on our 2015 5th Gen and it was by far the sketchiest tire I have ever driven in the rain with, they were absolutely horrible in the wet. Light weight, better fuel economy, great on the road, yes, yes, yes, but I wouldn't run them again even if you gave me two brand new sets for free.

We run KO2's on both of our vehicles, they have their drawbacks, but they are still one of if not the best all around tires on the market when you factor in durability, mileage, off-road and on-road traction, price, availability, looks etc. Pick your poison but I think there are much better options out there than the G2 and the KO2 is certainly one of them.
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Old 08-06-2019, 11:00 AM #4
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I hate my KO2s. Can't wait to replace them. They still have plenty of tread on them but as soon as the rain season starts, I'm changing them to something much more forgiving on wet roads.
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Old 08-06-2019, 11:31 AM #5
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What about the General Grabber A/T-X? I've considered swapping those from the the stock Bridgestone/Dunlop that will come on my '20 TRDORP along with the TGG2s...
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Old 08-06-2019, 12:17 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko View Post

I started doing some research on the G2s and saw folks mention that if you go with the P-rated tire, they are puncture-prone in rock crawling situations.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.
First, P vs LT.

People say that all the time. Except those of us who actually use P-metric tires all over the place with rare issues.

Yes, you are more likely to lose a P-metric, but P-metric tires hold their own very well at or near street pressures. You can play with 28-33 psi depending on need, etc, I just normally use 33 on and offroad, but actual airing down should be limited to deep sand and similar.

Using a P-metric tire gives you a better tire literally 99% of the time. Unless you plan on driving difficult obstacles made of sharp granite in AZ or equivalent, there is no point in going LT with a third ply in the sidewall. Just going LTC is not necessarily a guarantee about anything here in AZ.

For most people, getting LT tires on 4Runners is the equivalent of getting a 4Runner to drive a fire road once in a blue moon. Total overkill.

Second, not all P-metric tires give you equal shot at strength. I have not been able to find anything conclusive but here is a list of P-metric tires that make a case for themselves in the strength department:

Goodyear Adventure with Kevlar, for Kevlar in the tread and "durawall" sidewalls.
Falken Wildpeak AT3W for high ply turn-ups simulating 4 ply sidewall and strong shoulder protectors
Nitto Ridge Grappler for strong shoulder protectors
Wrangler Duratrac for strong shoulder protectors
Wrangler Ultraterrain for strong shoulder protectors
General Grabber ATX for strong shoulder protectors

That's about it. All other P-metrics I can think of lack the strong shoulder protectors necessary to keep rocks at bay.

Third, rain and wet.

Look at Discount Tire Direct and search by vehicle and then select tire and then select Treadwell. You will see third party testing for stopping distances in dry and wet.

Best dry and wet braking

outstanding dry and wet braking:
Wrangler Trail Runner
Wrangler Adventure with Kevlar
Falken Wildpeak AT 3W

All three of these stop within feet of each other.

For your needs, I recommend the tire I use, the Wildpeak AT 3W. It is cheap in 265 70 17 yet great on and off road, does great in the rain, I have total confidence in its strength everywhere outside the Sonoran Desert and equivalent, and does well enough even in those harshest environments.

My rear tires are 7/32nds now and had no issues with all the Montana rain we experienced in July. They still perform very well offroad as well.

The tire makes no noise in 265 70 17 (can be noisier in 285) and is very comfortable. Only now, at 7/32, I am starting to feel a slight loss of comfort, which happens to all tires when tread gets shallower.
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Last edited by MAST4R; 08-06-2019 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 08-06-2019, 12:55 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tm965 View Post
if you dont need the added durability of a c load tire, then i dont see why you wouldnt go back to a P rated tire for the reasons you mentioned. I had g1s on my previous car and i like them fine--they were quiet and were an upgrade from the goodyears that came on the vehicle for sure.
That's kind of what I was thinking. The KO2 is really overkill for what I need... hindsight is 20/20, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas View Post
We had G2's on our 2015 5th Gen and it was by far the sketchiest tire I have ever driven in the rain with, they were absolutely horrible in the wet. Light weight, better fuel economy, great on the road, yes, yes, yes, but I wouldn't run them again even if you gave me two brand new sets for free.

We run KO2's on both of our vehicles, they have their drawbacks, but they are still one of if not the best all around tires on the market when you factor in durability, mileage, off-road and on-road traction, price, availability, looks etc. Pick your poison but I think there are much better options out there than the G2 and the KO2 is certainly one of them.
Yikes. That's scary sounding, though I have read people say similar things about KO2s in the wet. Because the Limited is full time 4x4, I think I've experienced less wet traction issues than some of the folks with SR5s, ORs or the TRD Pro. I have not been in a position yet where I feel sketched out by a lack of wet traction on the KO2s, but I will say that braking in general is a bit more dramatic with KO2s vs. the Yokohama Geolanders that came stock... more nose dive, and it seems like the ABS is constantly triggered. Do you experience that also?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KuhDunkADunk View Post
I hate my KO2s. Can't wait to replace them. They still have plenty of tread on them but as soon as the rain season starts, I'm changing them to something much more forgiving on wet roads.
Out of curiosity, what do you hate? Sounds like bad wet traction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdhunz View Post
What about the General Grabber A/T-X? I've considered swapping those from the the stock Bridgestone/Dunlop that will come on my '20 TRDORP along with the TGG2s...
I've read about this tire many times but have not done a ton of research. I'll add it to my list. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAST4R View Post
First, P vs LT.

People say that all the time. Except those of us who actually use P-metric tires all over the place with rare issues.

Yes, you are more likely to lose a P-metric, but P-metric tires hold their own very well at or near street pressures. You can play with 28-33 psi depending on need, etc, I just normally use 33 on and offroad, but actual airing down should be limited to deep sand and similar.

Using a P-metric tire gives you a better tire literally 99% of the time. Unless you plan on driving difficult obstacles made of sharp granite in AZ or equivalent, there is no point in going LT with a third ply in the sidewall. Just going LTC is not necessarily a guarantee about anything here in AZ.

For most people, getting LT tires on 4Runners is the equivalent of getting a 4Runner to drive a fire road once in a blue moon. Total overkill.

Second, not all P-metric tires give you equal shot at strength. I have not been able to find anything conclusive but here is a list of P-metric tires that make a case for themselves in the strength department:

Goodyear Adventure with Kevlar, for Kevlar in the tread and "durawall" sidewalls.
Falken Wildpeak AT3W for high ply turn-ups simulating 4 ply sidewall and strong shoulder protectors
Nitto Ridge Grappler for strong shoulder protectors
Wrangler Duratrac for strong shoulder protectors
Wrangler Ultraterrain for strong shoulder protectors
General Grabber ATX for strong shoulder protectors

That's about it. All other P-metrics I can think of lack the strong shoulder protectors necessary to keep rocks at bay.

Third, rain and wet.

Look at Discount Tire Direct and search by vehicle and then select tire and then select Treadwell. You will see third party testing for stopping distances in dry and wet.

Best dry and wet braking

outstanding dry and wet braking:
Wrangler Trail Runner
Wrangler Adventure with Kevlar
Falken Wildpeak AT 3W

All three of these stop within feet of each other.

For your needs, I recommend the tire I use, the Wildpeak AT 3W. It is cheap in 265 70 17 yet great on and off road, does great in the rain, I have total confidence in its strength everywhere outside the Sonoran Desert and equivalent, and does well enough even in those harshest environments.

My rear tires are 7/32nds now and had no issues with all the Montana rain we experienced in July. They still perform very well offroad as well.

The tire makes no noise in 265 70 17 (can be noisier in 285) and is very comfortable. Only now, at 7/32, I am starting to feel a slight loss of comfort, which happens to all tires when tread gets shallower.
Great post. Thank you so much for your insight.
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Last edited by Gecko; 08-06-2019 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 08-06-2019, 01:01 PM #8
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I also recommend the Wildpeak AT3W. I just switched from my Nitto TG G2's to BFG K02's. Had them on for a week and rain traction and steering vibration was awful. Had DT swap them out for Wildpeaks in 285 SL. Happy to say the ride is great, tires are fairly quiet and so far the rain traction has been good. Plus they are also severe snow rated.
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Old 08-06-2019, 01:15 PM #9
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I just finished reading some reviews of the Falken Wildpeaks and I have to first thank MAST4R for the recommendation, then say that I've never read reviews for any AT tire that were as unanimously positive. Wow - very impressive.

Thanks again for the recommendation.
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Old 08-06-2019, 02:14 PM #10
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I had G2's and they were horrible. No traction in rain at all, I could spin them easily and pretty much any time I wanted. Cornering with them was a challenge and an even scarier challenge when it was raining out. When I got my new tires I was surprised at how well I could corner. At a stoplight by work I would always loose traction and spin, I expected that with my new ones but instead they held and were very well planted.

I have had KO's, not a fan of them in wet weather. Yes they last, hold up, durable but I have had better tires.

Last edited by vipers28; 08-07-2019 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 08-06-2019, 02:31 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KuhDunkADunk View Post
I hate my KO2s. Can't wait to replace them. They still have plenty of tread on them but as soon as the rain season starts, I'm changing them to something much more forgiving on wet roads.
How much mileage do you have on yours? Mine had bout 25K miles on them maybe 30k. No issues in the wet at all so far. I rotate every 3k though.
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Old 08-06-2019, 03:15 PM #12
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How much mileage do you have on yours? Mine had bout 25K miles on them maybe 30k. No issues in the wet at all so far. I rotate every 3k though.
Mine have about 25K as well. I rotate my tires often too. There's no indication of abnormal wear and I don't drive like a maniac. But yet on multiple occasions my tires have spun out during intersections because it couldn't get traction (when wet). Additionally, there was this one time we drove through snow and even though I was taking it slow, had issues with stopping in slushy areas and taking off at lights.

In the beginning they were often, but seems after a few years and some miles... they deteriorate pretty fast. I'm going to go to Falken Wildpeaks next.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:28 AM #13
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For someone who knows more about tires than I do: How much does tire weight impact braking distance and performance?

As mentioned above, one of the things I noticed most prominently about the KO2s is how they seem to constantly trigger my ABS even in moderate braking. I don't recall the stock 20s/Geolanders being as dramatic.

The Wildpeaks are a 47lb tire, the KO2s are 53lbs.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:22 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko View Post
For someone who knows more about tires than I do: How much does tire weight impact braking distance and performance?

As mentioned above, one of the things I noticed most prominently about the KO2s is how they seem to constantly trigger my ABS even in moderate braking. I don't recall the stock 20s/Geolanders being as dramatic.

The Wildpeaks are a 47lb tire, the KO2s are 53lbs.
you should get slightly better accel, decel, and mpg.
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Old 08-07-2019, 01:43 PM #15
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I was in the same exact situation as the OP. Ran KO2's for years and loved them. My wheeling days now however are same as the OP, light trails and service roads, but mainly on road so I went with the P metric G2's. Have had no complaints, very nice on road in the dry, wet, and snow. Also have had them on the light trails in the dry and snow, again, no complaints..
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