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Old 08-16-2019, 04:17 PM #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhguth View Post
you've seen them broken on a 5th gen, or 4th gen?
I think it may have been a 4th gen, but it was a while back.
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Old 08-16-2019, 04:52 PM #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jafrush View Post
I think it may have been a 4th gen, but it was a while back.
Not necessarily endorsing the factory points but I believe the 4th gen's tow points are welded differently than the 5th gen
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Old 08-16-2019, 04:58 PM #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyKevin View Post
Not necessarily endorsing the factory points but I believe the 4th gen's tow points are welded differently than the 5th gen
Ill have to go crawl under our 4th gen and look
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Old 08-16-2019, 05:52 PM #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billiamwu View Post
Yea that site is a mess. I ordered mine from OK4WD, but I don't see them on there now.

Here's the write-up about them on trail4runner.com:
ARB Recovery Point Addition on a 5th Gen 4Runner, Instllation Instructions

They come individually, not in pairs. I think the part numbers are .
Thanks for the quick response. I've sent an email to ARB-USA and will see what they can say about the availability of the brackets.
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Old 08-17-2019, 09:13 PM #35
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I watched a video on YT a while back while I was researching recovery gear. It was put on by a Canadian company that made straps and hitches.

They had an older Ram 2500, with a class 5 receiver hitch. They had one end of the truck anchored to a massive tractor, the other was attached to a Cat bulldozer. The had the dozer pull on the Ram to test the recovery gear. They had a force meter on it, and IIRC they got up to 28k lbs before there was a failure. The failure was not any of the gear, interestingly enough it was the hitch that failed. The failure point was not the bolts holding it to the frame, the hitch literally ripped apart at the welds.

Now granted, I'm not an engineer, but that lends credence to what I've heard anecdotally about bolts often being stronger than welds.

Now I bought a pair of D Rings and a tree saver strap to use as bridle on mine, so I'll roll the dice on them if I had to. I'd feel more confident on a burlier set of bolted on hooks, though.

I find it sad that a Jeep Compass has more legit front recovery points than our Runners.
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Old 08-17-2019, 10:22 PM #36
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This has been beat to death on the forum, but the stock recovery loops are 100% adequate as recovery points. If you damage them you did something waaaay wrong. To get enough force on them to damage them would require being totally bogged in mud and have your recovery vehicle get some crazy running start to get you out. Even then you probably wouldn't damage them.
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Old 08-18-2019, 12:46 AM #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsethief View Post
---snip------ They had a force meter on it, and IIRC they got up to 28k lbs before there was a failure. The failure was not any of the gear, interestingly enough it was the hitch that failed. The failure point was not the bolts holding it to the frame, the hitch literally ripped apart at the welds.

Now granted, I'm not an engineer, but that lends credence to what I've heard anecdotally about bolts often being stronger than welds.

Now I bought a pair of D Rings and a tree saver strap to use as bridle on mine, so I'll roll the dice on them if I had to. I'd feel more confident on a burlier set of bolted on hooks, though.
So if the hitch ripped off the welds at 28,000 pounds how is that worse than "... 2 x 12mm grade 8.8 bolts with a shear strength of ~ 14,200lb combined"?
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Old 08-18-2019, 03:22 AM #38
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Me thinks funny when peps use tow strap as snatch strap, then wonder what went wrong....


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Old 08-18-2019, 10:47 AM #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STX4Runner View Post
This has been beat to death on the forum, but the stock recovery loops are 100% adequate as recovery points. If you damage them you did something waaaay wrong. To get enough force on them to damage them would require being totally bogged in mud and have your recovery vehicle get some crazy running start to get you out. Even then you probably wouldn't damage them.
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Originally Posted by teotwaki View Post
So if the hitch ripped off the welds at 28,000 pounds how is that worse than "... 2 x 12mm grade 8.8 bolts with a shear strength of ~ 14,200lb combined"?
Add me to the factory camp. I can vouch for a Subaru eye bolt, by the way, used in a very hard pull at 30 degrees on a vehicle with a curb weight of 4,200 (Tribeca). It bent a little and was retired but that's it.

First of all, failed old equipment does not count. Once corrosion takes its toll, everything changes. Then a new point properly mounted to healthy frame may indeed outdo the compromised factory points.

Second, I am fine with ARB and their point. I am sure they did their homework.

Third, the recovery point that started the thread is advertised as:
"***not intended for use with soft shackles***

***NO SIDELOADING***

WLL: 10,000lbs, 2:1 safety factor per point"
Treaty Oak Offroad — GX460/5th gen 4runner Recovery Point

Wait, 10,000lbs rating with a 2:1 factor? Looks like that is for one but the proper for our rigs strap/rope is the ARB 17,600lb one. The recovery hooks better be rated for a lot more than that. Quality shackles have a 5 or 6:1 safety factor.

Not rated for soft shackles? Lost me right there, as well.

"NO SIDELOADING" because a 4R is so likely to get stuck right in the middle of a big dirt road (maybe, with stock tires on snow!).

In other words, the Subaru eye bolt is better than this supposed 4Runner recovery point in case of a really difficult pull.

Now that is a fancy tow point. The recovery point is already put on in Tahara.
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:50 PM #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAST4R View Post

Third, the recovery point that started the thread is advertised as:
"***not intended for use with soft shackles***

Not rated for soft shackles? Lost me right there, as well.
"Soft shackles" are not bad but are often billed as a new wondertool that solves every problem of hooking up to vehicles lacking engineered recovery points



From one web site:

"Soft Shackles will help make any vehicle recovery easier. Forget about trying to find a solution to connect a steel shackle to a vehicle without recovery points. Soft Shackles wrap around anything such as recovery points, roll bars, axles and bumpers. They are made from lightweight, heavy-duty SK75 Synthetic rope with a breaking strength of 16,000 lbs- 89,000 lbs. so you can be sure that they will not break even in the toughest recovery situations. They can be used with recovery ropes, tow ropes, winch ropes or whatever recovery tools you have and are perfect for use with hooks and Safety Thimbles.

Soft Shackles replace Anchor Shackles and D-Ring shackles in just about every application!"

It is really a matter of knowing when to use a steel shackle or a soft shackle. Soft shackles need careful inspection for nicks, cuts, fraying or other damage. My concern is that one could become unfastened without sufficient tension.

I am guessing that ARB wants to limit pulls to a forward direction and feel a soft shackle might introduce or allow some angle of pull.
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:56 PM #41
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So far ive only used my soft shackle to connect a winch extension or strap. Definitely safer than a bow shackle in that application!
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:58 PM #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teotwaki View Post
"Soft shackles" are not bad but are often billed as a new wondertool that solves every problem of hooking up to vehicles lacking engineered recovery points



From one web site:

"Soft Shackles will help make any vehicle recovery easier. Forget about trying to find a solution to connect a steel shackle to a vehicle without recovery points. Soft Shackles wrap around anything such as recovery points, roll bars, axles and bumpers. They are made from lightweight, heavy-duty SK75 Synthetic rope with a breaking strength of 16,000 lbs- 89,000 lbs. so you can be sure that they will not break even in the toughest recovery situations. They can be used with recovery ropes, tow ropes, winch ropes or whatever recovery tools you have and are perfect for use with hooks and Safety Thimbles.

Soft Shackles replace Anchor Shackles and D-Ring shackles in just about every application!"

It is really a matter of knowing when to use a steel shackle or a soft shackle. Soft shackles need careful inspection for nicks, cuts, fraying or other damage. My concern is that one could become unfastened without sufficient tension.

I am guessing that ARB wants to limit pulls to a forward direction and feel a soft shackle might introduce or allow some angle of pull.
I agree with you and I personally carry 2 soft shackles and two traditional shackles.

But I was not quoting ARB
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