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Old 09-10-2019, 11:50 AM #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatSlam View Post
Yep reduced airflow on a cooling circuit pushed beyond its thermal limit by an added supercharger. Non-OEM Synthetic ATF had nothing to do with this and never will.

You’re fixated on a damn manual that specs OEM fluids made for them by the same manufacturers of off the shelf fluid. They know this works on simple minds.
Im with Jetboy on this. If it doesnt meet the specs..it doesnt meet the specs. I have seen similar issues on Honda where supposively comparable fluids arent comparable and transmissions are crunched.

Hey you know best..use what you want. We will all setup a death pool gambling league on guessing the exact date when your tranny will grenade. Tickets..only $1 dollar...proceeds go to me and Jetboy for cheap women and liquor.

Whats left over you can use for the bus pass!!!
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Old 09-10-2019, 02:30 PM #47
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i wonder if ISIS uses Toyota WS or some alternative
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Old 09-10-2019, 02:57 PM #48
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I think so. They're very particular about vehicle maintenance.
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Old 09-11-2019, 12:25 AM #49
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4low requires less work (lower heat) and typically allows more water pump flow and atf pump flow.

If you are really in a pinch turn the heater on to full blast. Preferably heat on floor or vent. Avoid any type of defrost. Defrost activates air conditioning. Humans will be uncomfortable but equipment will be happy.

Check the owners manual for cooling a hot transmission. It will probably say leave engine running in neutral with vehicle safely parked. "Park" does not always pump fluid through the transmission.


Regardless of which type of fluid is in the transmission, change it. ATF does not appreciate high temps. You could have 100 miles total on the fluid. It became hot, change it.
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:05 AM #50
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Do ISIS trucks even make it to the first oil change?
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Old 09-12-2019, 12:36 PM #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
I'm a physicist. I sort of doubt that you do. But if you'd like to tell me the stokes number ideal for the clutch packs in the A750F - please educate us all! I'd love to learn about the particulate suspension differences between Type 4 and WS. Obviously we already know that WS is very different from Type 4 in both viscosity and additives based on lab tests. There's still a lot we don't know. Maybe you could help out?


It's not Toyota's engineers. It's the engineers from Aisin - who specifically state in the manual for the A750F not to use type 4. The viscosity is too high.
I am a Physicist also, along with Mechanical Engineer and Mathematician as well. These do not make me a Petroleum Engineer, Automotive Engineer nor most relevant here a Tribologist. I think my education and profession help inform me day to day on making good decisions on many related things but they also give me an appreciation for knowing what I don't know...

There are some funny pics posted up here but let's agree to disagree. Folks seem to fall into four camps; "OEM fluids only", "non OEM but meeting OEM spec", "I'll carefully choose my own" and "anything works". It's my educated guess that folks in any of the first three camps will be just fine in the long term with all automotive fluids (engine oil, transmission, dies, brake, coolant, etc.).

Let's all get back OT, I should have some updated temp data to share soon.
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Old 09-12-2019, 12:38 PM #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wcjeep View Post
4low requires less work (lower heat) and typically allows more water pump flow and atf pump flow.

If you are really in a pinch turn the heater on to full blast. Preferably heat on floor or vent. Avoid any type of defrost. Defrost activates air conditioning. Humans will be uncomfortable but equipment will be happy.

Check the owners manual for cooling a hot transmission. It will probably say leave engine running in neutral with vehicle safely parked. "Park" does not always pump fluid through the transmission.


Regardless of which type of fluid is in the transmission, change it. ATF does not appreciate high temps. You could have 100 miles total on the fluid. It became hot, change it.
Thanks, good stuff, as noted definitely changing the fluid due to the 2 brief overheats.
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Old 09-12-2019, 01:05 PM #53
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I don't think anyone has asked - are you sure it actually overheated and you don't have a bad sensor? A short in the inlet temp sensor will be identified by the ECU as over-temp and will tell you that the transmission is overheating. The inlet temp sensor (No. 2) is the one used for the dash light for overheating.

https://shop.ukrtrans.biz/wp-content...logs/A750E.pdf (just don't read the part about not using type 4 )

More full diagnostic sequence can be found here:
http://fjcruiser-club.com/docs/RM/A7...0Transaxle.pdf

Last edited by Jetboy; 09-12-2019 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 09-12-2019, 01:29 PM #54
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Perhaps you overheated because the slow speed and off road terrain did not allow your torque converter to lock up. When the transmission is not 'locked up' or in 'flex lockup' mode it generates a lot more heat, I have seen this pulling a trailer up grades. Look at the graphic in this post:

https://www.toyota-4runner.org/2024686-post12.html

The way I read it, a larger throttle opening and low speed will keep the transmission un-locked and generating more heat. I would guess 4-Lo might work better. S4 should also reduce 'flex lockup'.
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Old 09-13-2019, 01:14 AM #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
I don't think anyone has asked - are you sure it actually overheated and you don't have a bad sensor?
...
Based on the loading conditions (vehicle load, grade and exterior temperature) as well as the behavior of the transmission after removing those larger loads, I think the sensors are all A-OK. They also read ambient temperature when vehicle is cold.
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Old 09-13-2019, 02:02 AM #56
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Temps are running about 15-20 deg F cooler now with the external cooler mounted. Just home from the shop and a WOT up a decent pavement climb for a 1/2 mile was seeing 150 - 170 deg F. I saw close to 190 under similar or even lighter conditions pre cooler.

Although I realize this chart from Hayden is a rule of thumb more so than definitive, this should probably contribute to a significant lengthening of my transmission life (and fluid change intervals).

Does anyone know at what temperature the warning light turns on? I googled around a bit but could not find it. Some references say 250 deg F but it was not vehicle/manufacturer specific.
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Last edited by XswampX; 09-13-2019 at 02:39 AM.
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Old 09-13-2019, 02:09 AM #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XswampX View Post
Temps are running about 15-20 deg F cooler now with the external cooler mounted. Just home from the shop and a WOT up a decent pavement climb for a 1/2 mile was seeing 150 - 170 deg F. I saw close to 190 under similar or even lighter conditions pre cooler.

Although I realize this chart from Hayden is a rule of thumb more so that definitive, this should probably contribute to a significant lengthening of my transmission life (and fluid change intervals).

Does anyone know at what temperature the warning light turns on? I googled around a bit but could not find it. Some references say 250 deg F but it was not vehicle/manufacturer specific.
When lit up when I hit 240 at the tc
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Old 09-13-2019, 02:38 AM #58
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According to some Jeep guys 30-50 degrees lower tranny temps 4Lo vs. 4Hi. Huge. Link.
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:27 PM #59
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Wrong oil,

long slow climbs in 4 HI

33' tires on stock gearing

no trans cooler (not required but a huge asset)


all of your problems right here.

im running 33' stt pros (62lbs per tire) with an aux tranny cooler and i still get warm in long slow climbs in 4Lo (220F)

learn how to use your Hi/Low Ranges properly. and you'll avoid overheating
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:59 AM #60
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[QUOTE=Grug556;3353206]Im with Jetboy on this. If it doesnt meet the specs..it doesnt meet the specs. I have seen similar issues on Honda where supposively comparable fluids arent comparable and transmissions are crunched.

Hey you know best..use what you want. We will all setup a death pool gambling league on guessing the exact date when your tranny will grenade. Tickets..only $1 dollar...proceeds go to me and Jetboy for cheap women and liquor.

This guy did his homework on the Toyota WS vs Valvoline Synthetic Max Life. He's able to show that the WS breaks down badly with heat, while the Valvoline does not.

WS transmission fluid is garbage . Get it out of your transmission now | Tacoma World

Post #80 in that thread:

Not sure where the OP is coming from, but I can tell you where I am at, and how I got here.

I have owned and maintained a fleet of four cars for the last fifteen years, currently two are Toyotas and two are Subarus and all four are automatics.
When it came time to change the fluid in the Tacoma, at 60k not the 100k as originally sold, as there seems to be a problem with particulates forming in the fluid per Toyota, I was sticker shocked by the cost of this WS Toyota fluid.

Being the inquisitive type, I wanted to know what this expensive fluid was doing for me, and with an engineering background I was able to understand the properties of the fluid.
The short version is that I was unimpressed with the qualities of the product, especially at that price, so I looked at the alternatives.
I ran the properties of the WS and the Valvoline Maxlife past the experienced eye of an engineer at a hydraulics engineering firm that handles large hydraulics systems (like canal gates) and the response was that while the WS is thinner at low temperatures, the Valvoline has much better high temperature performance.
Nearly 10k miles later on the Valvoline and I am satisfied. Smoother shifting, better idle, and converter lock-up at lower speeds.
I can tell you that the WS was definitely showing 'particulate masses' when I drained it.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do.


We have 195K miles on the 2014 SR5 and trans and going strong. They say these transmissions go an average of 140K to 190K miles, so I guess we won. We'll be selling it at 250K and looking for a new 4Runner. At this point, it's not like a transmission failure is going to break me. I am a 0.5%er, yet I do all my own work. I'll never be on the bus. Suck on that.

Last edited by CutthroatSlam; 09-22-2019 at 12:27 PM.
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