FWIW - a 5th gen out of the box has a lot of advantages over a 3rd gen. The significant increase in strength of the front drive system and the traction control systems give it a big leg up in performance in stock form.

As I'm sure you know, the 3rd gen is a great base vehicle but needs a handful of upgrades to get serious about the harder offroad trials. Namely it needs at a minimum a set of locking diffs and typically also a front end upgrade. The 7.5 isn't known for being particularly strong, nor are the front axles. It generally also needs one of the various solutions to upgrade the upper ball joints. Otherwise it's a very good platform to start with. But it's really not as capable off the shelf as a 5th gen. As a result over time unless your 3rd gen is double locked and has fairly large tires, you'll find that the 5th gen is typically enough better that you'll be using it more and more.

That said - I really loved my 3rd gen and have considered buying another one to build a dedicated family trail rig out of. I think the 3rd gen and the LC80 are the two best platforms to start with for a family crawler given how cheap they are and how much you get relative to the starting price. I see a lot of really cheap 3rd gens around that are a fantastic starting point. IMO the best build for me for an all around family crawler is something like a 3rd gen on about 40's with a LC 9.5 rear axle or an 8.2 and a 30 spline reverse 8" front IFS conversion (basically swapping 5th gen running gear). The Front Range 4R is fantastic as an all around crawler/family hauler. So I don't think there's any reason not to consider keeping both if you're going to build the 3rd gen into a more hardcore crawler. OTOH if you're only planning on a 3" lift and 33" tires - the 5th gen will end up being what you use for everything I'd bet.

You can get a dune buggy and tow it with the new 4runner.

HAHA, great quote, Got mine at Johnson Valley Chasing, brappp brapppp brapppp on a nite run...

I like to think I do, but at the end of the day it's going to come down to everyone's definition of "real off-roading." Which is quite different. Some consider fire roads off-roading, others consider it legit rock crawling.

lol. It doesn't have anything to do with being a sissy. it has to do with being a person with a normal middle class income and bills and not wanting to lose a shitload of money on a financed car because of wheeling it. I'm not your buddy that can afford a McLaren and not care about damaging it. I'm a normal dude with student loans and such that would be making a slight stretch to afford a $42k truck and wants to protect that.

good info, thanks. I'm leaning more towards a 5th gen. I realized that most of the time that I do long road trips, it's to go somewhere I'm going to offroad, or go skiing somewhere that just got snow dumped on it, or to go mountain biking. so clearance, 4x4, offroad capability, and interior room for my dog and bike aren't things I can let go for onroad performance, until I can afford two nice cars, which isn't right now.

It’s all relative… dollar value doesn’t matter assuming it’s all within your means.

Mr. Mclaren obvious knows it’s expensive, but instead of turning it into a garage queen he uses it.

Your 4Runner could very well be your Mclaren. Same example, use it and enjoy it for what it is.


It’s not advise, but this is my personal outlook on things like this… I generally try not to buy things I can’t afford to lose. If I need it and can’t afford to lose it, I insure it correctly. If I can’t afford to insure it correctly, I don’t buy it.

Non essentials are luxury items… I don’t need to off-road, but I like to off-road. It’s a high risk activity and I am OK with taking the loss. If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t do it, or I would find something more affordable to do it in.

Does this count? I'd like to think I'm using the car what it was designed for. It'd be a shame if I never got to play with the fancy buttons overhead. Sure, I have pinstripes and dented up rear bumper, but honestly makes me love it more.

I love taking my rig on extreme off road trips. I will admit I've been nervous a few times but when you make it through crazy obstacles it makes it that much more rewarding.

The regular old 9-5 joe shmoe excuse. You can buy a Camry if you want to tell all your coworkers that you got a spiffy new ride.

that 25k warranty doesn't cover what has been modified if the dealership did it themselves; Once you modify anything more than likely the dealership wont cover it on warranty as any mishap will be a result of mods.

Yes a lot of us wheel them. I'll be done with payments in December and just crested 36K miles so I'm out of warranty. Am I going to let up now? Hell no. Can I afford to replace it if I break it? Not right away, but over the last two years I've learned so much about how to work on it that I'm not all that worried, a lot of what I do and what could break I can fix myself. I'm not concerned about the drivetrain because I take care of it properly. I picked up a little Scion to kick around town and shuttle the kids for $2500 as insurance and to not have to subject it to a ton of city miles, plus I don't need to drive it everyday wherever I go to show it off.

It's not a lifestyle vehicle. It's a vehicle that allows me to live the life I love, which is to get the hell out of town, camp in the middle of nowhere for days at a time, and tackle beautiful trails away from the barbarian horde that is LA.

I can't say I've taken it up to 13K', but this is 12K', does that count?

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Lol. Ok buddy. Ya got me. You definitely know what my life is like based on a few posts about buying a car. People that know me IRL would spit their coffee/beer out laughing if they knew someone on the internet called me a regular 9-5 Joe Schmoe. But you really figured me out. Phew. Glad I got that one solved by the mysteriously brilliant internet commenter.

Ooooo kayyyy. For the last time. I wouldn’t buy it and not use it, nor was that my question. I have beat the living shit out of every vehicle I have ever owned and this one wouldn’t be different. My question was about losing money if I damaged it offroading, assuming that insurance wouldn’t cover it. Apparently some policies do cover it, or you can find one that will or amend the policy for add ons, etc. That basically answered my question.

Beyond that I was simply curious if other folks wheel financed vehicles. Apparently they do. Cool. Rad to see folks out using these things as I’m sure the vast majority of them never leave the pavement. I know I see 3rd gens around that have definitely been soccer mom cars their entire lives.

To the helpful folks, thanks for the advice.

To those who will inevitably comment without reading, have at it. Enjoy your 3 sentence grandstand pontificating on what someone’s purchases mean about their masculinity.

Insurance will cover most any damage sustained, and if you're driving solo and wreck it, it will be considered your fault and rates may go up depending on who you have and if they have accident forgiveness baked in.

Aftermarket equipment gets a little tricky. There are add on plans that cover aftermarket equipment. I have Mercury and they charge $15/6mo. for every $1000 of equipment I want to cover.

Another question is what does the insurance company think your vehicle is worth to begin with. Luckily we're talking 4runners which retain their value quite well, so you would probably come out ok if you had to make a claim.

But really, if you're hitting an 8 rated trail at 10K', 30 miles off the nearest forest road, and snap a CV/spindle/steering rack, and can't fix it on the trail, or god forbid roll it, what your insurance definitely WONT cover, is the cost to get towed back home until you get it on pavement. So unless you have really awesome friends who know a lot about recovery (sounds like you might), you'll be paying any of those fees out of pocket. I think someone recently rolled off Black Bear. I wouldn't want to get that tow truck bill.

All things to consider before going all in on a new vehicle that you're going to put at risk.

Sorry if this is also something you've already heard before. I read your initial post and actually took one route you were considering, which is buy a kick around car that's decent on fuel and build up and utilize my Runner as an expedition/camping/trail running vehicle. It probably wasn't the smartest idea as I could have paid it off much sooner if I hadn't decked it out, but damn if I haven't taken it on some awesome trips. I could have also trashed it on one of those trips and been down the drain. I like to think it was 50% pure luck and 50% good decision making that got me down those trails without incident. But who knows. I take a lot of calculated risks and most of the time it pays off.

The best advise I've ever got when making a decision is, do whatever you think is going to make you the happiest.

Again, sorry if this is all stuff that's been covered.