10-24-2019, 07:26 PM
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#31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy
I don't think there's any question that Lexus engineers can design a better audio system than you. And they have. And it is better than anything you could come close to for $10k.
They can choose the location of every speaker, they choose the wiring loom, they choose the speaker size, type, and enclosure. They also choose the sound dampening. And they likely spent hundreds or thousands of hours tuning the system. (I don't know on the GX - but Lexus spent multiple thousands of hours of tuning on the LS, presumably less on the GX). For $10k you could replace the components that they installed with a hodgpodge of stuff you hope works out to be something better once. No tuning. Not testing a dozen tweeter configurations, etc.
Can you upgrade a base model 4Runner? Sure. Will it be comparable to the GX Levenson system? No. Is a low mile used GX with the Levinson system available for about the same price as a used 4Runner? Yep. If you want the obvious solution to a better audio system with little effort and about the same cost - the answer is pretty clear. If you want the 4Runner for other reasons instead of a GX - then by all means upgrade the audio system. If I really cared much about the audio, I'd short cut to the finished product.
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You've clearly never been in a car with a $10,000 system in it. The Lexus system is better but not by much. Engineers stick speakers wherever they fit and tune them for the masses. There is no real engineering put into it at all. What you're saying is 100% wrong in every single way. Stock in everything on the planet is mediocre at best.
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2016 4RUNNER SR5 PURCHASED NEW JANUARY 29TH 2017 - OEM FJ TRD PRO SUSPENSION WITH 3/8 CORNFED TOP HAT SPACERS & 1" PRELOAD SPACER FOR A TOTAL OF 2.5" FRONT LIFT, 2" CORNFED SPACERS IN THE BACK (I'M A DEALER FOR CORNFED SUSPENSION), FX PRO WHEELS, 295/70/17 MICKEY THOMPSON ATZ P3, WEATHER PACKAGE, NAVIGATION, LED INTERIOR LIGHTS, AFE PRO DRY AIR FILTER, BORLA MUFFLER, TYGER SLIDER STEPS, BLACKOUT EMBLEM KIT, TRD PRO GRILL, POLY FRONT AND REAR SWAY BAR BUSHINGS, OEM 3RD GEN REAR SWAY BAR LINKS, REAR DIFF BREATHER MOD, OEM ALUMINUM OIL FILTER HOUSING UPGRADE, OIL CATCH CAN.
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10-24-2019, 08:28 PM
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#32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2016 4Runner SR5
You've clearly never been in a car with a $10,000 system in it. The Lexus system is better but not by much. Engineers stick speakers wherever they fit and tune them for the masses. There is no real engineering put into it at all. What you're saying is 100% wrong in every single way. Stock in everything on the planet is mediocre at best.
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Not quite right, but you do raise the basic issue.
Manufacturers are constrained by the basic box - vibrating thin metal panels, nicely reflective glass panels, some of which are fixed and some that vibrate, absorbent carpet and seating. Then there is wind noise, road noise and engine noise - oh and the ceiling is metal and glass too.
These are all things that you don't get in your normal listening environment and while you can dump far more than $10k into a car system, the best you can hope for is a good sounding system standing still, but all bets are off as soon as the car starts moving.
While you can dampen the unwanted panel vibrations, you can't do much about the glass and manufacturers generally do a pretty decent job depending on the category of vehicle. You can bet that spending money on a killer sound system isn't high up on the list for the 4R.
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10-24-2019, 08:48 PM
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#33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb1111
Not quite right, but you do raise the basic issue.
Manufacturers are constrained by the basic box - vibrating thin metal panels, nicely reflective glass panels, some of which are fixed and some that vibrate, absorbent carpet and seating. Then there is wind noise, road noise and engine noise - oh and the ceiling is metal and glass too.
These are all things that you don't get in your normal listening environment and while you can dump far more than $10k into a car system, the best you can hope for is a good sounding system standing still, but all bets are off as soon as the car starts moving.
While you can dampen the unwanted panel vibrations, you can't do much about the glass and manufacturers generally do a pretty decent job depending on the category of vehicle. You can bet that spending money on a killer sound system isn't high up on the list for the 4R.
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You can't do anything about glass but you can do quite a bit about road noise. Look into SQL, you'll be surprised at what you might learn. You are correct in saying it's much more difficult to keep your SQ levels high while in motion. That's where the L comes into play. Much more difficult to do but absolutely possible if you know what you're doing.
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10-26-2019, 01:10 PM
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#34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2016 4Runner SR5
You've clearly never been in a car with a $10,000 system in it. The Lexus system is better but not by much. Engineers stick speakers wherever they fit and tune them for the masses. There is no real engineering put into it at all. What you're saying is 100% wrong in every single way. Stock in everything on the planet is mediocre at best.
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You need to listen to a ML system. I'm sure Chaz at your local strip mall audio center is a real pro. Probably has a PhD in physics justlike the engineers at Harmon who design the ML systems right? And thousands of hours in a lab to test and tune?
Better than Naim?
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10-26-2019, 01:19 PM
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#35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy
You need to listen to a ML system. I'm sure Chaz at your local strip mall audio center is a real pro. Probably has a PhD in physics justlike the engineers at Harmon who design the ML systems right? And thousands of hours in a lab to test and tune?
Better than Naim?
The Automotive Hi-Fi System Shootout - Gear Patrol
On of us is 100%wrong. It's not me.
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You don't actually think stock systems have any real thought put into them do you? I have been in the car audio industry since the late 90s I have never in my life heard a factory system I would consider anything more than mediocre. There are some that are significantly better than others, but none that can hold a torch to a properly designed aftermarket SQ or SQL system.
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2016 4RUNNER SR5 PURCHASED NEW JANUARY 29TH 2017 - OEM FJ TRD PRO SUSPENSION WITH 3/8 CORNFED TOP HAT SPACERS & 1" PRELOAD SPACER FOR A TOTAL OF 2.5" FRONT LIFT, 2" CORNFED SPACERS IN THE BACK (I'M A DEALER FOR CORNFED SUSPENSION), FX PRO WHEELS, 295/70/17 MICKEY THOMPSON ATZ P3, WEATHER PACKAGE, NAVIGATION, LED INTERIOR LIGHTS, AFE PRO DRY AIR FILTER, BORLA MUFFLER, TYGER SLIDER STEPS, BLACKOUT EMBLEM KIT, TRD PRO GRILL, POLY FRONT AND REAR SWAY BAR BUSHINGS, OEM 3RD GEN REAR SWAY BAR LINKS, REAR DIFF BREATHER MOD, OEM ALUMINUM OIL FILTER HOUSING UPGRADE, OIL CATCH CAN.
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10-26-2019, 03:48 PM
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#36
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Just based on what I pulled out of my 4runner, the sound engineering amounted to "well it vibrates the air"
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10-26-2019, 07:34 PM
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#37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2016 4Runner SR5
You don't actually think stock systems have any real thought put into them do you? I have been in the car audio industry since the late 90s I have never in my life heard a factory system I would consider anything more than mediocre. There are some that are significantly better than others, but none that can hold a torch to a properly designed aftermarket SQ or SQL system.
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Lexus spent over 2,000 hours just tuning the LS system. Nothing any local shop has ever built is comparable. They lack the capability. They don't have the ability to custom design speakers, amps, etc. Harmon/Levinson/Samsung has everything including the manufacturing ability to build anything they want and the experts and lab testing equipment to dial it in. No local shop can do that. Ever. They have off the shelf parts and usually nothing beyond their ears to try to tune it.
It's like saying your local strip mall drum store is making better drums than Yamaha. They're not.
Is a gx as good as an ls? No. Is it better than anything you could build piecemeal for $10k in a 4runner. Yep.
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10-26-2019, 07:58 PM
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#38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy
Lexus spent over 2,000 hours just tuning the LS system. Nothing any local shop has ever built is comparable. They lack the capability. They don't have the ability to custom design speakers, amps, etc. Harmon/Levinson/Samsung has everything including the manufacturing ability to build anything they want and the experts and lab testing equipment to dial it in. No local shop can do that. Ever. They have off the shelf parts and usually nothing beyond their ears to try to tune it.
It's like saying your local strip mall drum store is making better drums than Yamaha. They're not.
Is a gx as good as an ls? No. Is it better than anything you could build piecemeal for $10k in a 4runner. Yep.
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A local audio shop could possibly design a system that would sound better standing still. Of course you'd have speakers in awkward places, lose much storage and affect the driveability.
Can a hot rod shop turn a 4R into a Corvette killer? Throw enough money at it and you probably can, but it won't work as a 4R anymore.
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10-26-2019, 08:36 PM
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#39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy
Lexus spent over 2,000 hours just tuning the LS system. Nothing any local shop has ever built is comparable. They lack the capability. They don't have the ability to custom design speakers, amps, etc. Harmon/Levinson/Samsung has everything including the manufacturing ability to build anything they want and the experts and lab testing equipment to dial it in. No local shop can do that. Ever. They have off the shelf parts and usually nothing beyond their ears to try to tune it.
It's like saying your local strip mall drum store is making better drums than Yamaha. They're not.
Is a gx as good as an ls? No. Is it better than anything you could build piecemeal for $10k in a 4runner. Yep.
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Enter your stock LS in a SQ competition and I'll enter any vehicle with a properly designed and tuned $10,000 SQ system and we'll see what happens. You'll be laughed at and I'll take home the trophy. It's that simple. But I'm done arguing with someone that very obviously has absolutely no real word experience when it comes to this stuff.
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2016 4RUNNER SR5 PURCHASED NEW JANUARY 29TH 2017 - OEM FJ TRD PRO SUSPENSION WITH 3/8 CORNFED TOP HAT SPACERS & 1" PRELOAD SPACER FOR A TOTAL OF 2.5" FRONT LIFT, 2" CORNFED SPACERS IN THE BACK (I'M A DEALER FOR CORNFED SUSPENSION), FX PRO WHEELS, 295/70/17 MICKEY THOMPSON ATZ P3, WEATHER PACKAGE, NAVIGATION, LED INTERIOR LIGHTS, AFE PRO DRY AIR FILTER, BORLA MUFFLER, TYGER SLIDER STEPS, BLACKOUT EMBLEM KIT, TRD PRO GRILL, POLY FRONT AND REAR SWAY BAR BUSHINGS, OEM 3RD GEN REAR SWAY BAR LINKS, REAR DIFF BREATHER MOD, OEM ALUMINUM OIL FILTER HOUSING UPGRADE, OIL CATCH CAN.
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10-26-2019, 09:15 PM
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#40
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OEM systems are designed with one key thing in mind, not damaging the speakers. They do not want their reliability tarnished and certainly do not want warranty work needing to be performed. That is why you get bass roll off as you turn the system up and also a limiter on the volume control.
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10-26-2019, 09:39 PM
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#41
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2019 SR5 4WD is at MSRP around $38k. 2019 Limited 4WD MSRP is at $45k. Limited is the cheapest 4Runner that comes with JBL audio.
Should I spend $7k more and get limited just to get JBL audio, or go with cheaper SR5 and do audio upgrades myself?
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10-26-2019, 11:41 PM
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#42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSwan
2019 SR5 4WD is at MSRP around $38k. 2019 Limited 4WD MSRP is at $45k. Limited is the cheapest 4Runner that comes with JBL audio.
Should I spend $7k more and get limited just to get JBL audio, or go with cheaper SR5 and do audio upgrades myself?
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If it's just JBL you want, then go with the cheaper option and upgrade.
With a limited you get KDSS, push to start, auto lights, auto hvac, real leather, park sensors, etc
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10-26-2019, 11:46 PM
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#43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2016 4Runner SR5
Enter your stock LS in a SQ competition and I'll enter any vehicle with a properly designed and tuned $10,000 SQ system and we'll see what happens. You'll be laughed at and I'll take home the trophy. It's that simple. But I'm done arguing with someone that very obviously has absolutely no real word experience when it comes to this stuff.
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I would never get $10,000 of value out of a flexing car audio system. The JBL is good enough for me. Now about your use of spacers....so disappointed...lol
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10-27-2019, 03:54 AM
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#44
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Quality audio mod for $2500, makes sense?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSwan
2019 SR5 4WD is at MSRP around $38k. 2019 Limited 4WD MSRP is at $45k. Limited is the cheapest 4Runner that comes with JBL audio.
Should I spend $7k more and get limited just to get JBL audio, or go with cheaper SR5 and do audio upgrades myself?
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Those are two very different trim levels and look completely different. No car out there is worth that price difference for audio. A ton of people with the JBL say it sucks anyway.
I honestly think you are way over thinking this car audio thing. Buy the rig you want. People upgrade to focal speakers all around and add an amp blah blah blah for half that.
As far as the LS or GX sounding amazing I disagree. I’ve had both. Maybe the newer ones are better but the Mark Levinson system is crap at best. All paper speakers and magnets the size of quarters. I might still have the old ones sitting in the garage if I didn’t toss them already. Is it better than the 4Runner? It’s cleaner. But my amp also went out and it was an 8 channel amp and $500 to have it fixed and ran the radio, nav, heat and ac and everything else in the car. I thought it was horrible.
Long story short, spend $2500 on way better things than a stereo in my opinion
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Last edited by GX4SEVEND; 10-27-2019 at 04:34 PM.
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10-27-2019, 07:38 AM
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#45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msp
I would never get $10,000 of value out of a flexing car audio system. The JBL is good enough for me. Now about your use of spacers....so disappointed...lol
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10K can be spent many ways. Either crazy system made for SPL or a system built for pure sound quality. You can go well above that 10K mark when building a car audio or home audio system. Just depends on what your goal is. As for spacers, the factory rear coils ride great. Nothing wrong with a coil spacer. Huge bolt on front coil over spacers on the other hand are something I am not a fan of. Tried it when I had my 2016 Tacoma and the ride was very poor.
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2016 4RUNNER SR5 PURCHASED NEW JANUARY 29TH 2017 - OEM FJ TRD PRO SUSPENSION WITH 3/8 CORNFED TOP HAT SPACERS & 1" PRELOAD SPACER FOR A TOTAL OF 2.5" FRONT LIFT, 2" CORNFED SPACERS IN THE BACK (I'M A DEALER FOR CORNFED SUSPENSION), FX PRO WHEELS, 295/70/17 MICKEY THOMPSON ATZ P3, WEATHER PACKAGE, NAVIGATION, LED INTERIOR LIGHTS, AFE PRO DRY AIR FILTER, BORLA MUFFLER, TYGER SLIDER STEPS, BLACKOUT EMBLEM KIT, TRD PRO GRILL, POLY FRONT AND REAR SWAY BAR BUSHINGS, OEM 3RD GEN REAR SWAY BAR LINKS, REAR DIFF BREATHER MOD, OEM ALUMINUM OIL FILTER HOUSING UPGRADE, OIL CATCH CAN.
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