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Old 10-28-2019, 04:50 PM #61
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You're right, Chaz has no clue what he's talking about. Chaz is not the topic of conversation here. I have done everything from SPL trucks to SQ cars. No one touches my vehicles but me. Believe what you want to believe but I doubt you personally have an ear for audio. That's why you are satisfied with OEM "quality"
Do you not see that you're the emperor in search of a tailor? Chaz is your tailor. You *think* you have a great ear for audio. What you have is a great ability to delude yourself.
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Old 10-28-2019, 05:55 PM #62
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I'm not totally sure why bose came into this, but they certainly have the expertise to make fantastic sounding systems. I agree that they don't necessarily actually do that in many cases. But they've made a ton of money off of marketing it. I'd guess a Porsche 911 with the Bose system sounds pretty good. They seem to target the mid-range systems in most vehicles. Probably a lot like the jbl system in the Toyota/Lexus lineup. It's not expensive and sounds okay. The Lexus ML systems are usually a pretty good value. Rarely are they over about $2500. And in the used market the cost is typically zero to find one with vs without. Plus if you want a GX with crawl control - it only comes in the Luxury model for most years, so it's almost always going to be together with crawl control.

I certainly don't dispute that a 4Runner could be made to sound better than a GX with the ML option given unlimited money and time - but I don't think you'll get there for $10k. Certainly not if that price has to include labor of stripping out the entire interior, rewiring, custom making new locations for a dozen more speakers, replacing the alternator, etc. All of these are quite easy to do at the design stage and a lot more cost effective for the manufacturer. And I have no idea what you'd do to smooth out the v6 to make it comparable to the v8 when you're actually moving. It's not exactly "silky smooth". So you could probably add some very low noise tires and keep the full OEM suspension system with all rubber bushings for the softest possible ride with minimal road noise.

But then, why not just buy one that has it all done already? That's why the logical choice points to the GX. Even if you're going to upgrade it, the GX has a better starting point. It already has a 17 speaker, 12ch, 7.1 audio system. Starting there seems like a much easier path.
Bose (IMO) hasn't made anything worthwhile since the mid 90's Acoustimass speakers that worked fine as an early media speaker.

The bigger question is why you'd want to put a high end system into a 4R because a 4R is suited for all sorts of things far better than an audiophile's dream.
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Old 10-28-2019, 05:56 PM #63
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I hear good stuff about Porsche's Panamera Burmester system and Acura's ELS system. Never sat in one though...My coworker that owns a Panemera is kind of a douche, so I'm not gonna ask him. I threw in Kickers and it improved the bass but sounds worse than the factory speaker when it comes to vocals. I can't wait to get rid of them. Wanna buy my Kicker door speakers? Lol
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Old 10-28-2019, 06:40 PM #64
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Bose (IMO) hasn't made anything worthwhile since the mid 90's Acoustimass speakers that worked fine as an early media speaker.

The bigger question is why you'd want to put a high end system into a 4R because a 4R is suited for all sorts of things far better than an audiophile's dream.
The only Bose product I own are the noise cancelling headphones. Those are worth their weight in gold to me. I do what I can to get someone else to travel for work, but I still end up flying somewhere every month or so.

Agree on putting high end audio in a 4R. I'm not sure it makes much sense - especially if people are combining it with mud tires and roof racks etc. The factory system in the 4R is pretty crappy though. I could see myself doing the Subaru/Kicker dash speaker upgrade, but probably not much beyond that.
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Old 10-28-2019, 07:02 PM #65
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The only Bose product I own are the noise cancelling headphones. Those are worth their weight in gold to me. I do what I can to get someone else to travel for work, but I still end up flying somewhere every month or so.

Agree on putting high end audio in a 4R. I'm not sure it makes much sense - especially if people are combining it with mud tires and roof racks etc. The factory system in the 4R is pretty crappy though. I could see myself doing the Subaru/Kicker dash speaker upgrade, but probably not much beyond that.
I forgot about the headphones - those aren't bad, but I can't think of a speaker product they've cranked out since the mid 90's that was any good. The car systems are mediocre at best - but fine for their target audience.
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Old 10-28-2019, 07:06 PM #66
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Just in case it wasn’t obvious to someone reading… Bose is a bad word in the audiophile world… A company who spends a ton of money on marketing and demos to convince people they were except from the laws of physics as they could achieve the same with less displacement (speaker size) . Their product ownership is generally associated with the uninformed.

Some products are exempt from being shunned… I would say their noise cancelling headphones are one of them.
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Old 10-28-2019, 07:55 PM #67
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Just in case it wasn’t obvious to someone reading… Bose is a bad word in the audiophile world… A company who spends a ton of money on marketing and demos to convince people they were except from the laws of physics as they could achieve the same with less displacement (speaker size) . Their product ownership is generally associated with the uninformed.

Some products are exempt from being shunned… I would say their noise cancelling headphones are one of them.
.

Audiophiles can be snobs....lol. Bose is shunned because of housewives winning arguments over giant speakers in the living room. Bose is pretty amazing if you consider the amount of engineering it requires to get those generic full range speakers to sound the way they do. Never seen Bose speakers used at a concert though...
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Old 10-28-2019, 08:18 PM #68
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"With a limited you get KDSS"

Then it must be a new option for 2020. But I just looked and the Toyota site it's not an option on the Limited.
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Old 10-28-2019, 08:19 PM #69
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.

Audiophiles can be snobs....lol. Bose is shunned because of housewives winning arguments over giant speakers in the living room. Bose is pretty amazing if you consider the amount of engineering it requires to get those generic full range speakers to sound the way they do. Never seen Bose speakers used at a concert though...

It’s called WAF … Wife Acceptance Factor… Luckily my wife’s ears are better than mine and her love for audio makes things easy for me. She is the one with a pair of Dynaudio studio monitors…

As to Bose success in acoustics…. You are right, there is a WAF component to it. They use a lot of DSP to get their speakers to sound the way they do… Unfortunately, their response is far from flat, but they found the secret sauce to have their speakers perceived as full range. It’s still successful engineering given the end goal.

I agree… audiophiles can be snobs. I love my audio, understand it very well, but I also have my limits. You won’t find any $500 patch cables at my house.
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Old 10-28-2019, 09:11 PM #70
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I'm not 4Runner owner just yet. I did test drive one today (2019 SR5 4x4) and I spent some time on analyzing audio. It sounds really cheap and artificial. I don't mind engine noise and road noise. I get it, it's a truck and it's not super quiet inside but that doesn't bother me. The artificial/synthetic audio though does bother me a lot. I think I will have to improve it somehow once I purchase the vehicle.
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Old 10-28-2019, 09:48 PM #71
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It’s called WAF … Wife Acceptance Factor… Luckily my wife’s ears are better than mine and her love for audio makes things easy for me. She is the one with a pair of Dynaudio studio monitors…

As to Bose success in acoustics…. You are right, there is a WAF component to it. They use a lot of DSP to get their speakers to sound the way they do… Unfortunately, their response is far from flat, but they found the secret sauce to have their speakers perceived as full range. It’s still successful engineering given the end goal.

I agree… audiophiles can be snobs. I love my audio, understand it very well, but I also have my limits. You won’t find any $500 patch cables at my house.
My Corner Horns driven by 4 Citation 18's in my media room (that I sized for the Corner Horns) sounds pretty good - and far better than anything in a car.
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Old 10-29-2019, 02:53 PM #72
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My Corner Horns driven by 4 Citation 18's in my media room (that I sized for the Corner Horns) sounds pretty good - and far better than anything in a car.
Very nice… I only focus on home audio / home theater these days. Too many projects going on, most of it DIY… working on room acoustics panels using Owens Corning 703 insulation, vibration isolated riser platform for the couch for my clark synthesis transducers, and eventually building my own line array towers with external active crossovers. Most of my sub and transducer amps are rack mounted pro audio equipment, but also have things like Emotiva 5 channel for my home theater speakers. Using a lot of balanced XLRs for interconnects these days.

May sound over the top or complicated to some, but I think I am pretty budget minded compared to what I see other people do.
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Old 10-29-2019, 03:46 PM #73
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Very nice… I only focus on home audio / home theater these days. Too many projects going on, most of it DIY… working on room acoustics panels using Owens Corning 703 insulation, vibration isolated riser platform for the couch for my clark synthesis transducers, and eventually building my own line array towers with external active crossovers. Most of my sub and transducer amps are rack mounted pro audio equipment, but also have things like Emotiva 5 channel for my home theater speakers. Using a lot of balanced XLRs for interconnects these days.

May sound over the top or complicated to some, but I think I am pretty budget minded compared to what I see other people do.
Cool - but you could put all that into the back of the 4R

Your statement "room acoustics panels using Owens Corning 703 insulation, vibration isolated " speaks to the problem in vehicles - and one that cannot be easily solved for a moving car. Specifically, how can you keep the glass of the car from acting like big speakers?
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Old 10-29-2019, 04:06 PM #74
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Cool - but you could put all that into the back of the 4R

Your statement "room acoustics panels using Owens Corning 703 insulation, vibration isolated " speaks to the problem in vehicles - and one that cannot be easily solved for a moving car. Specifically, how can you keep the glass of the car from acting like big speakers?
There is a lot of room in the 4R… high output alternator or two, should be able to fit an small AV rack in there. You could certainly treat all your windows with acoustic insulation, it might impair your ability to actually drive the thing, but it would sound wonderful.

Once Elon figures out the full self-driving thing windows could become optional accessory. Could be the first true hi-fi sedan.
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Old 10-30-2019, 02:10 PM #75
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There is a lot of room in the 4R… high output alternator or two, should be able to fit an small AV rack in there. You could certainly treat all your windows with acoustic insulation, it might impair your ability to actually drive the thing, but it would sound wonderful.

Once Elon figures out the full self-driving thing windows could become optional accessory. Could be the first true hi-fi sedan.

Or you just drive around with those Bose Quiet Comforts on. Lol.
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