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Old 11-14-2019, 11:19 AM #16
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You should be able to get any color and configuration you want. My friend's dealership in a small town in Montana currently has 50 4Runners on the lot and around 6 or 7 with KDSS. If a small dealership in Montana has half a dozen with KDSS - you should have no problem finding what you want in any city in California.
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:58 PM #17
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Travel if you have to or call other local dealers after getting a price on the one 400 miles away. I found the truck I wanted about that far away (Milwaukee and I live in Minneapolis). I went back to the local dealer with the price, he said he could get the same truck by doing a dealer trade and would come within $400 of the Milwaukee price.

The cost of my time made it worth spending the extra $400 to work locally - just need to put in the effort on the front end.

Also, I drove a 4Runner without KDSS and immediately was disappointed with the nose dive. the KDSS took care of all the concerns I had in the handling of the 4Runner!
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Old 11-15-2019, 07:30 PM #18
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I didn't know what KDSS was until joining this forum.

My $748 Eibach Pro Truck Lift (+$475 for install) solved my body roll and nose dive on braking complaints of my Off Road.

It also supports the weight of my winch and winch bumper.
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Old 11-15-2019, 08:06 PM #19
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I test drove both and really couldn't tell the difference. It was just a test drive, so I didn't push either to hard. I chose the '16 TP. Kids love the sunroof and I love the seats cuz I got kids.
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Old 11-15-2019, 09:08 PM #20
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My only advice is to buy what you want. I test drove both and the difference between KDSS and without was immediately apparent to me. I personally chose one that had everything I wanted, from the color, to the moonroof, to the KDSS, etc.

These things cost too much to settle for something you don't want.

I kept my last 4Runner for 22 years, 1 month, and two days. Hopefully the new one will be as reliable and I'll want to keep it as long.
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Old 11-24-2019, 01:03 PM #21
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if I were buying a used or new TRD ORP is there any outward sign inside the vehicle or easily visible without crawling underneath or putting it on a lift that the vehicle was equipped with KDSS? Many dealers don't list options and a lot of people I get e-mails back from have no idea.
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Old 11-24-2019, 01:11 PM #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drobs View Post
I didn't know what KDSS was until joining this forum.

My $748 Eibach Pro Truck Lift (+$475 for install) solved my body roll and nose dive on braking complaints of my Off Road.

It also supports the weight of my winch and winch bumper.
I agree. The handling advantage of KDSS may be greater on paper, but when it comes to cornering in a high center of gravity BoF SUV, an upgraded suspension is plenty good enough. The 4R will never corner like a WRX anyway.

The only argument for KDSS for people who modify their vehicles that I see is the extra flex offroad. However, that again is really a stock vs stock comparison. I do have extra travel with my 6112s/Icon 2.0 combo.



Quote:
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if I were buying a used or new TRD ORP is there any outward sign inside the vehicle or easily visible without crawling underneath or putting it on a lift that the vehicle was equipped with KDSS? Many dealers don't list options and a lot of people I get e-mails back from have no idea.
Yes, there is a "buldge" on the driver side frame rail in the middle of the vehicle which contains whatever hydraulic pump the system uses or something like that. Also, the front sway bar is completely different, much larger, and despite all the protestations of some KDSS owners, there is 1" clearance loss at the front of the factory front skid plate with KDSS vs any other model. If they are next to each other on the dealer's lot, you will easily see which has KDSS by looking frontally at the row of parked 4Rs. The KDSS have visibly less clearance at the front edge of the front skid.
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Old 11-24-2019, 01:17 PM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAST4R View Post
I agree. The handling advantage of KDSS may be greater on paper, but when it comes to cornering in a high center of gravity BoF SUV, an upgraded suspension is plenty good enough. The 4R will never corner like a WRX anyway.

The only argument for KDSS for people who modify their vehicles that I see is the extra flex offroad. However, that again is really a stock vs stock comparison. I do have extra travel with my 6112s/Icon 2.0 combo.





Yes, there is a "buldge" on the driver side frame rail in the middle of the vehicle which contains whatever hydraulic pump the system uses or something like that. Also, the front sway bar is completely different, much larger, and despite all the protestations of some KDSS owners, there is 1" clearance loss at the front of the factory front skid plate with KDSS vs any other model. If they are next to each other on the dealer's lot, you will easily see which has KDSS by looking frontally at the row of parked 4Rs. The KDSS have visibly less clearance at the front edge of the front skid.
Thanks. I have never driven one with KDSS but I have rented two SR5s. I found the roll to be a medium issue and the nose dive to be a minor issue. I also felt it drifted around the road quite a bit in excess of what I would expect from a vehicle that size.

Would skipping KDSS and a decent suspension upgrade solve some or all of those issues? I can certainly find ORPs for days without KDSS so it would make things a ton easier for me.
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Old 11-24-2019, 02:15 PM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4powells View Post
Thanks. I have never driven one with KDSS but I have rented two SR5s. I found the roll to be a medium issue and the nose dive to be a minor issue. I also felt it drifted around the road quite a bit in excess of what I would expect from a vehicle that size.

Would skipping KDSS and a decent suspension upgrade solve some or all of those issues? I can certainly find ORPs for days without KDSS so it would make things a ton easier for me.
I have an Off Road without KDSS. I had an Eibach Pro Truck Lift (4 springs & 4 shocks) that cured the body roll and nose dive.

The truck still drifts in it's lane to some extent. I've gotten used to it. You'll go mad trying to make small steering corrections. Seems like there is some play in the steering wheel.

Best to just hold the steering wheel straight and make the occasional steering correction - resisting the temptation to constantly make corrections.

In comparison, I have a 2006 Nissan Frontier has a very stiff steering wheel. Switching back and forth between the Nissan and 4Runner, I find myself making more steering corrections in the Frontier when it's not needed.
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Old 11-24-2019, 04:13 PM #25
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Thanks. I have never driven one with KDSS but I have rented two SR5s. I found the roll to be a medium issue and the nose dive to be a minor issue. I also felt it drifted around the road quite a bit in excess of what I would expect from a vehicle that size.

Would skipping KDSS and a decent suspension upgrade solve some or all of those issues? I can certainly find ORPs for days without KDSS so it would make things a ton easier for me.
It will all depend on your exact suspension setup and your exact preferences and uses but as a rule of thumb any decent suspension will allow you to forgo KDSS on road while being better on higher speed offroad sections (no punishing monster sway bar), have lower maintenance bills if you keep it like I hope I will (20+ years), and make mods easier to execute (fewer things in the way).

In my case, with 6112/Icon 2.0 rear the vehicle is very nice to drive on road as far as an SUV can be nice to drive on road LOL. I will upgrade to 650lb springs because the front is not stiff enough offroad but it is stiff enough on pavement.

I am not at all against KDSS. I love how it works in the GX package. But on a 4R I would rather simply upgrade the suspension. I don't really see the point of having KDSS and also upgrading the suspension though it is commonly done. BY contrast, there is a ton to like about the GX total package (KDSS+suspension) and the present-day GX is not really suited for difficult trails without significant upgrades anyway (like front bumper, to start with).
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Old 11-24-2019, 04:46 PM #26
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Quote:
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It will all depend on your exact suspension setup and your exact preferences and uses but as a rule of thumb any decent suspension will allow you to forgo KDSS on road while being better on higher speed offroad sections (no punishing monster sway bar), have lower maintenance bills if you keep it like I hope I will (20+ years), and make mods easier to execute (fewer things in the way).

In my case, with 6112/Icon 2.0 rear the vehicle is very nice to drive on road as far as an SUV can be nice to drive on road LOL. I will upgrade to 650lb springs because the front is not stiff enough offroad but it is stiff enough on pavement.

I am not at all against KDSS. I love how it works in the GX package. But on a 4R I would rather simply upgrade the suspension. I don't really see the point of having KDSS and also upgrading the suspension though it is commonly done. BY contrast, there is a ton to like about the GX total package (KDSS+suspension) and the present-day GX is not really suited for difficult trails without significant upgrades anyway (like front bumper, to start with).


Iím starting to think Iíd be better off with a leveling kit and a suspension upgrade probably end up costing less than KDSS does and be less of a hassle in the long term. Which now makes me wonder do I even need the OffRoad premium.


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Old 11-24-2019, 04:52 PM #27
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I test drove all the configurations before settling on the ORP with KDSS. All drove well, but the day I purchased I wanted to be certain, and so drove the SR5, the SR5P and then the ORP. Driving them all back to back made the choice very obvious (for me).

However, if I had only driven the SR5, I would not have been mad at that purchase. Great trucks.

If the limited didnít have a body kit and 20 inch wheels, I probably would have gone that route for the ice and snow.
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Old 11-24-2019, 05:25 PM #28
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I test drove all the configurations before settling on the ORP with KDSS. All drove well, but the day I purchased I wanted to be certain, and so drove the SR5, the SR5P and then the ORP. Driving them all back to back made the choice very obvious (for me).

However, if I had only driven the SR5, I would not have been mad at that purchase. Great trucks.

If the limited didnít have a body kit and 20 inch wheels, I probably would have gone that route for the ice and snow.
I agree on the body kit. It's that front end I love so much and the Limited ruins it for me. I did see that you can retrofit that front end.
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Old 11-24-2019, 05:57 PM #29
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Iím starting to think Iíd be better off with a leveling kit and a suspension upgrade probably end up costing less than KDSS does and be less of a hassle in the long term. Which now makes me wonder do I even need the OffRoad premium.


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I guess it comes down to how much you plan to use the locker and the MTS settings. I use both a great deal, here in the West.

In FL? I have no idea. I wonder if MTS is better enough than A-trac in mud and sand to justify the price tag. OTOH, the manual lever is a plus, too. Does A-trac work in hi range on SR5 models? I do not really use Atrac at all. MTS on sand/mud works in 4H and makes a big difference in terrain that is mildly sandy or muddy but that allows speed.
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Old 11-24-2019, 06:13 PM #30
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I guess it comes down to how much you plan to use the locker and the MTS settings. I use both a great deal, here in the West.



In FL? I have no idea. I wonder if MTS is better enough than A-trac in mud and sand to justify the price tag. OTOH, the manual lever is a plus, too. Does A-trac work in hi range on SR5 models? I do not really use Atrac at all. MTS on sand/mud works in 4H and makes a big difference in terrain that is mildly sandy or muddy but that allows speed.
The truth of the matter is I've never off-road it but I'm starting to get to the age now where I don't take family vacations with the kids anymore because they're grown and I want to go places with my wife off the grid off the beaten path. I sort of feel like if I ever got to the point where the SR5 premium wasn't enough of a four-wheel drive vehicle to do what I need to do then I could just upgrade at that point.

That being said I think that the ride on the base SR5 premium can use some work and it's my understanding that the TRD off-road premium and the TRD pro both drive much differently.

I'm just going to keep it real here though and say that aesthetics matter too. I love the hood scoop fake even though it is.

so with that in mind how does the TRD pro drive compared to the TRD off-road premium with kdss? Is it a softer ride or a firmer ride I would imagine it would be softer on the road.

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