11-20-2019, 10:44 PM
|
#1
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Toronto
Posts: 17
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Toronto
Posts: 17
|
Secondary Shock
I currently have an icon stage 2 set up on an Off-Road with KDSS. I was wondering if there is a way to run a secondary shock upfront without doing much fabrication. The icon website seems to indicate that their secondary shock system isn't compatible with KDSS but just curious to see if anyone has a similar set up.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
11-20-2019, 10:59 PM
|
#2
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PNW
Age: 42
Posts: 1,395
Real Name: Mike
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PNW
Age: 42
Posts: 1,395
Real Name: Mike
|
You’d have to run an aftermarket LCA like total chaos or have a fab shop fab a secondary shock mount on the stock LCA. You’re $500 for the S2 hoop and another $1500ish for the bypass shocks plus shop and fab time. Cost/benefit just isn’t there.
In all honestly very few people need a secondary shock or will even use the advantages. I know people on here love KDSS but you for sure will never need the secondary’s from icon with kdss. The massive sway bars limit travel and that’s the exact opposite of what the S2 set up is designed to do.
Just my opinion
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
‘14 SR5 in white
Front: King ext travel 2.5 w/ adjusters, TC UCA/LCA
Rear: King 2.5 shocks w/ adjusters, Dobinson’s 3” Icon Billet lowers, Icon tubular uppers, PCK
Wheels/Tires: SCS SR8’s w/ Toyo MT 35x12.50x17
Full RCI skids
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
11-21-2019, 02:37 AM
|
#3
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: OC, Derpifornia
Age: 40
Posts: 1,244
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: OC, Derpifornia
Age: 40
Posts: 1,244
|
^^^What that person said. Lower control arm, secondary shock hoop and some welding.
__________________
2019 Runner TRD Offroad Premium w/KDSS
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
11-21-2019, 04:54 AM
|
#4
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SGV
Posts: 34
|
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SGV
Posts: 34
|
It may not be compatible in the sense that the skid plate occupies the same space as the end mounts.
A simple fix is to notch the plate.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
11-21-2019, 10:46 AM
|
#5
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,612
Real Name: Tobias Fünke
|
|
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,612
Real Name: Tobias Fünke
|
I think total chaos makes a KDSS LCA with two shock mounts. But, I could be wrong.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
11-21-2019, 10:53 AM
|
#6
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: phoenix
Posts: 2,291
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: phoenix
Posts: 2,291
|
x2, take a look at the mounting of ICON's S2 setup for the skid plate and see if you can just notch the skid plate. Otherwise total chaos has a LCA that will work. skid plates are cheaper lol
__________________
2016 TE : Grocery Getter, 34/10.5R17 Toyo at3, Prinsu Rack, King Coilovers, DuroBumps, ToyTec HD 2.0 springs, King shocks, King hydro bumps, Total Chaos mounts, DirtKing Fabrication UCA, VIVID RACING Tune, URD Y pipe, RCI skids, Marlin Crawler gussets, DRKDSS everything
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
11-21-2019, 10:54 AM
|
#7
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: phoenix
Posts: 2,291
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: phoenix
Posts: 2,291
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanman
It may not be compatible in the sense that the skid plate occupies the same space as the end mounts.
A simple fix is to notch the plate.
|
anymore pics of this setup?
__________________
2016 TE : Grocery Getter, 34/10.5R17 Toyo at3, Prinsu Rack, King Coilovers, DuroBumps, ToyTec HD 2.0 springs, King shocks, King hydro bumps, Total Chaos mounts, DirtKing Fabrication UCA, VIVID RACING Tune, URD Y pipe, RCI skids, Marlin Crawler gussets, DRKDSS everything
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
11-21-2019, 10:58 AM
|
#8
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Monument, CO
Posts: 319
|
|
Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Monument, CO
Posts: 319
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GX4SEVEND
The massive sway bars limit travel and that’s the exact opposite of what the S2 set up is designed to do.
|
I thought there was a test done showing the KDSS allowed slightly more flex/travel than a stock setup, which I'm assuming would remain (the extra 1/2" to 1") with a lift kit?
The big benefit you'll get with the S2 is additional dampening, which would be good for doing baja runs otherwise I just don't see the need?
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
11-21-2019, 11:53 AM
|
#9
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: phoenix
Posts: 2,291
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: phoenix
Posts: 2,291
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundy
The big benefit you'll get with the S2 is additional dampening, which would be good for doing baja runs otherwise I just don't see the need?
|
This. it's great for guys who don't want extra travel. Although for the money personally id rather switch to a +2 kit. ditch sway bars. But then i'm still looking at the icon s2 setup.......
__________________
2016 TE : Grocery Getter, 34/10.5R17 Toyo at3, Prinsu Rack, King Coilovers, DuroBumps, ToyTec HD 2.0 springs, King shocks, King hydro bumps, Total Chaos mounts, DirtKing Fabrication UCA, VIVID RACING Tune, URD Y pipe, RCI skids, Marlin Crawler gussets, DRKDSS everything
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
11-21-2019, 12:04 PM
|
#10
|
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 5,017
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 5,017
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundy
I thought there was a test done showing the KDSS allowed slightly more flex/travel than a stock setup, which I'm assuming would remain (the extra 1/2" to 1") with a lift kit?
The big benefit you'll get with the S2 is additional dampening, which would be good for doing baja runs otherwise I just don't see the need?
|
KDSS has basically the same max travel in stock form. But it will articulate more, especially at low speeds. It's pretty rough at medium speeds. And then the big sway bars start to help again at higher speeds in the rough terrain. KDSS at 80mph in the desert is going to be more stable than the non-kdss models. At those high speeds the shocks take over almost all of the bump compliance and the spring influence including sway bars start to take a back seat. At 20-40mph in the moguls, it's going to be really rough. That's where KDSS is has its Achilles heel. So it sorta depends on what you're trying to do. The easy solution that no one has done is to have a custom sway bar made. You could have a custom sway bar made for KDSS that is the same spring rate as the normal sway bar and it would operate just like every other model at speed but be better in the slow speed stuff. No one has done that - but there are plenty of places that will bend any sway bar you want. It wouldn't necessarily be cheap, but it's very do-able if you wanted that.
The really issue here is that bypass shocks are basically only for high speed and KDSS is pretty rigid at high speeds. A bypass shock could actually be pretty useful by being very soft in the mid range of travel. But the reality is that no 5th gen really needs a secondary bypass. The front setup doesn't have enough travel to ever overheat or outrun a single shock. A single bypass front shock like the TRD Pro, Bilstein 8100, etc. is probably the ideal setup for this suspension for as hard as you could realistically push it.
If you want more than that - you're going to be better off just building a different vehicle. I think that's really the key. A 4Runner only has about 8" of travel with stock arms and around 10 with a "long travel" setup. A Land Cruiser 200 has around 10-11" stock and can easily go up to 16" with aftermarket suspension. So it's a very different animal. And a better starting point for go-fast desert terrain. Even a stock Tundra has about the same suspension travel capability with upgraded shocks as a Ford Raptor. It has more than the 1st gen raptor and a bit less than the 2nd gen Raptor. In a base model. And all the parts will bolt on to a LC200. So the $15k you'd dump into a long travel 4Runner would be better spent on upgrading the platform to an LC200/Tundra, a Ford Raptor, or even a UTV. You'll get a lot more performance for your money.
Last edited by Jetboy; 11-21-2019 at 12:13 PM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
11-21-2019, 01:01 PM
|
#11
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Kuwait City, Kuwait
Posts: 675
|
|
Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Kuwait City, Kuwait
Posts: 675
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierson4Runner
I currently have an icon stage 2 set up on an Off-Road with KDSS. I was wondering if there is a way to run a secondary shock upfront without doing much fabrication. The icon website seems to indicate that their secondary shock system isn't compatible with KDSS but just curious to see if anyone has a similar set up.
|
You mind if we ask why?
Proper 2.5 aftermarket shocks with adjustable valving are already beyond what the 4Runner platform is capable of in the high speed sand runs..
I’ve yet to outpace my KINGs in the desert, even when driving full on Arab style
__________________
2015 T4R TEP-KDSS - Overland build, getting slower by the mod:
Borfoo3's '15 TEP-KDSS 'no longer' mild build
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
11-21-2019, 01:48 PM
|
#12
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Toronto
Posts: 17
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Toronto
Posts: 17
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by borfoo3
You mind if we ask why?
Proper 2.5 aftermarket shocks with adjustable valving are already beyond what the 4Runner platform is capable of in the high speed sand runs..
I’ve yet to outpace my KINGs in the desert, even when driving full on Arab style
|
Thank you everyone for all the information. I have been doing some driving on bumpy dirt roads for fun at > 50mph and I was curious as to how the truck would perform with a secondary shock. Given the feedback it doesn't sound like there is much to gain. I have to say though it would look pretty awesome and I don't mind wasting a bit of money for a show truck, but not that much!
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
11-22-2019, 12:44 AM
|
#13
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SGV
Posts: 34
|
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SGV
Posts: 34
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by honda250xtitan
anymore pics of this setup?
|
This is the other image from a previous thread.
TC LCAs are all boxed it appears and are $$$$, so just notch it.
Last edited by Stanman; 11-22-2019 at 12:48 AM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
11-22-2019, 10:59 PM
|
#14
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 160
|
|
Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 160
|
But why? You racing in the Baja 1000?
Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Rate This Thread |
Linear Mode
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
|