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Old 01-02-2020, 10:30 PM #1
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Question Prospective ORP Buying Advice

I went through this five years ago, and this time may pull the plug. Wife is telling me to buy one tomorrow. I did buy a GX470 but didn’t keep it long due to a change in work location. My use will be 95% on road, some beach, light trails and steep potentially snow covered dirt roads in Vermont. So I’m not lifting it. No major mods planned. I know I can do all that in an Outback but I just fit nicely in the 4R and enjoy being in it. I cringe at the crappy headlights but assume I can upgrade those.

Options are Limited or TRD ORP. I feel like the ORP would hold its value better should I want a more street friendly ride in a few years. It’s also quite a bit cheaper. Creature comforts of Limited are nice, but I can live without. I cannot find any 2020 ORD with KDDS in Massachusetts or northern RI. None. Is that normal?

If I got an ORD without KDDS is there anything I can do to improve on-road handling in the way KDDS or XREAs would. I’m trading a BMW 340i and while I don’t expect miracles any handling improvement is welcome. If that’s something I can manage with the savings from non KDDS then maybe I can go that way.

Yes, I searched and read a ton of threads. Helped me narrow my questions here.
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Old 01-02-2020, 11:20 PM #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyHawk View Post
I went through this five years ago, and this time may pull the plug. Wife is telling me to buy one tomorrow. I did buy a GX470 but didnít keep it long due to a change in work location. My use will be 95% on road, some beach, light trails and steep potentially snow covered dirt roads in Vermont. So Iím not lifting it. No major mods planned. I know I can do all that in an Outback but I just fit nicely in the 4R and enjoy being in it. I cringe at the crappy headlights but assume I can upgrade those.

Options are Limited or TRD ORP. I feel like the ORP would hold its value better should I want a more street friendly ride in a few years. Itís also quite a bit cheaper. Creature comforts of Limited are nice, but I can live without. I cannot find any 2020 ORD with KDDS in Massachusetts or northern RI. None. Is that normal?

If I got an ORD without KDDS is there anything I can do to improve on-road handling in the way KDDS or XREAs would. Iím trading a BMW 340i and while I donít expect miracles any handling improvement is welcome. If thatís something I can manage with the savings from non KDDS then maybe I can go that way.

Yes, I searched and read a ton of threads. Helped me narrow my questions here.
I have KDSS and love it but feel you could get decent handling by upgrading the shocks.
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Old 01-02-2020, 11:31 PM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyHawk View Post
I went through this five years ago, and this time may pull the plug. Wife is telling me to buy one tomorrow. I did buy a GX470 but didnít keep it long due to a change in work location. My use will be 95% on road, some beach, light trails and steep potentially snow covered dirt roads in Vermont. So Iím not lifting it. No major mods planned. I know I can do all that in an Outback but I just fit nicely in the 4R and enjoy being in it. I cringe at the crappy headlights but assume I can upgrade those.

Options are Limited or TRD ORP. I feel like the ORP would hold its value better should I want a more street friendly ride in a few years. Itís also quite a bit cheaper. Creature comforts of Limited are nice, but I can live without. I cannot find any 2020 ORD with KDDS in Massachusetts or northern RI. None. Is that normal?

If I got an ORD without KDDS is there anything I can do to improve on-road handling in the way KDDS or XREAs would. Iím trading a BMW 340i and while I donít expect miracles any handling improvement is welcome. If thatís something I can manage with the savings from non KDDS then maybe I can go that way.

Yes, I searched and read a ton of threads. Helped me narrow my questions here.
IMO, if you really don't need offroad features like the rear locker etc, I would go with a limited. I have an ORP non-KDSS, but only because I primarily use it for camping/hunting/fishing etc and daily drive other cars. If I was going to use it as a daily and not mod it, and since I get snow here, I would have gotten a limited instead for the comforts as well as the AWD.

That's not to say the ORP is a bad daily. I just think the limited is better for that purpose.

I do use 4hi to drive in the snow when I need to, but AWD would be preferable if I could have it.
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Old 01-03-2020, 12:13 AM #4
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I have both (two) Limited's and one TRD OR. I use the TRD OR as my daily driver about 100 miles a day. I changed out the shocks to Bilstein 5100's and changed the coil over springs on the front's - ~$1,300. I think my ride quality is very good and compares well to my Limited's.

The TRD OR is more responsive to drive due to the lighter wheels and really being a 2WD truck most of the time, where as the Limited's AWD adds more drive-train drag, especially noticeable when accelerating from a full stop. My MPG's are slightly better in the TRD OR.

You should do a test drive of both with the knowledge that upgrading the TRD's shocks and you can get equal or slightly better ride quality - the 17" wheels/tires ride smoother, the 20" wheels/tires are firmer. I can drive either for my commute and I use the TRD OR.
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Old 01-03-2020, 12:23 AM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm-v35 View Post
IMO, if you really don't need offroad features like the rear locker etc, I would go with a limited. I have an ORP non-KDSS, but only because I primarily use it for camping/hunting/fishing etc and daily drive other cars. If I was going to use it as a daily and not mod it, and since I get snow here, I would have gotten a limited instead for the comforts as well as the AWD.

That's not to say the ORP is a bad daily. I just think the limited is better for that purpose.

I do use 4hi to drive in the snow when I need to, but AWD would be preferable if I could have it.
Thanks. Last time I was all Limited. Just saw no auto on off lights on ORP. Really? Thatís just inexcusable. Thatís been common for 20 years now. Iím not sure I can remember to turn my lights off 15 years after the last time I had to. Snow is a concern.

That said Iíd rather have 17s than the 20s. Our potholes are absolutely brutal here. That 70 sidewall is huge in absorbing that impact.
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Old 01-03-2020, 12:48 AM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josephp732 View Post
I have both (two) Limited's and one TRD OR. I use the TRD OR as my daily driver about 100 miles a day. I changed out the shocks to Bilstein 5100's and changed the coil over springs on the front's - ~$1,300. I think my ride quality is very good and compares well to my Limited's.

The TRD OR is more responsive to drive due to the lighter wheels and really being a 2WD truck most of the time, where as the Limited's AWD adds more drive-train drag, especially noticeable when accelerating from a full stop. My MPG's are slightly better in the TRD OR.

You should do a test drive of both with the knowledge that upgrading the TRD's shocks and you can get equal or slightly better ride quality - the 17" wheels/tires ride smoother, the 20" wheels/tires are firmer. I can drive either for my commute and I use the TRD OR.
I drove a ORP the other day. Seemed pretty good. None of them have KDDS. Canít find those at all. Drove limiteds a few years ago. Probably not much has changed.
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Old 01-03-2020, 01:04 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyHawk View Post
Thanks. Last time I was all Limited. Just saw no auto on off lights on ORP. Really? Thatís just inexcusable. Thatís been common for 20 years now. Iím not sure I can remember to turn my lights off 15 years after the last time I had to. Snow is a concern.

That said Iíd rather have 17s than the 20s. Our potholes are absolutely brutal here. That 70 sidewall is huge in absorbing that impact.
Well, a turbo Outback would be a blast for your use and an older used H6 5 EAT would be a tremendous value.

Short of that, I like the Limited for that kind of use. You do not need the ORP. And the ORP is really a joke in urban snow though it is a tank in offroad snow. Of course, snow tires in place of AT tires would fix a lot of that.

On the beach, I see no reason why an ORP should outdo either an Outback or a Limited.

Now, the arguments for the ORP:

1/ With an entry-level performance suspension (1000-1500 depending on which one and what price) and no-KDSS, you can pay less (than KDSS) and have plenty of wheel travel offroad and a lot better overall offroad performance. On road, I stock vs stock, KDSS is light years ahead of non-KDSS but once I upgraded the suspension, I no longer feel any handling or cornering issues. On the contrary, the 4R became, dare I say, almost fun to drive? It is no turbo Subaru but it is no random truck/CUV when cornering either.

2/ If you ever venture on difficult rated trails (by nationally recognized publications, not the stuff random folks call difficult or easy), then a stock Limited will be, well, quite limited.

3/ The ORP has an EXTREMELY easy to clean softex interior. If you go often on dirt/sand/mud, etc, the Limited may be a PAIN like my leather-interior Outback was.

Last point: the 4Runner will last longer and hold its value a lot better than the best of Outback models. I had an H6 5EAT and sold it well but even so it could not compare with the value retention of a 4R.
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Old 01-03-2020, 10:40 AM #8
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Well, a turbo Outback would be a blast for your use and an older used H6 5 EAT would be a tremendous value.

Short of that, I like the Limited for that kind of use. You do not need the ORP. And the ORP is really a joke in urban snow though it is a tank in offroad snow. Of course, snow tires in place of AT tires would fix a lot of that.

On the beach, I see no reason why an ORP should outdo either an Outback or a Limited.

Now, the arguments for the ORP:

1/ With an entry-level performance suspension (1000-1500 depending on which one and what price) and no-KDSS, you can pay less (than KDSS) and have plenty of wheel travel offroad and a lot better overall offroad performance. On road, I stock vs stock, KDSS is light years ahead of non-KDSS but once I upgraded the suspension, I no longer feel any handling or cornering issues. On the contrary, the 4R became, dare I say, almost fun to drive? It is no turbo Subaru but it is no random truck/CUV when cornering either.

2/ If you ever venture on difficult rated trails (by nationally recognized publications, not the stuff random folks call difficult or easy), then a stock Limited will be, well, quite limited.

3/ The ORP has an EXTREMELY easy to clean softex interior. If you go often on dirt/sand/mud, etc, the Limited may be a PAIN like my leather-interior Outback was.

Last point: the 4Runner will last longer and hold its value a lot better than the best of Outback models. I had an H6 5EAT and sold it well but even so it could not compare with the value retention of a 4R.
You may have effectively talked me out of the 4Runner. Itís true I donít need the capability. My main likes are the ergonomics and low relative belt line (I drive with left elbow on window sill and 4R fits perfectly), ride height, and moonroof + rear window gives a convertible like experience. Plus itís cool.

I was interested in a Bronco but canít wait for it.

Outback XT Onyx is almost certainly a better overall fit for what I need the car for. Loses the cool factor for sure but the Onyx is a little more rugged looking.

Going to look at the Honda Passport too.
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Old 01-03-2020, 11:18 AM #9
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If you can get over the barn door, I'd venture over to Lexus and see if you can scoop up a remaining 2019 GX460 on the cheap. I picked up a 2019 in Oct for 16.5% below MSRP and with the refreshed 2020 in dealerships you can probably get near 20% off MSRP on the 2019s. You get the KDSS standard with lots more luxury features like OEM LED headlights, heat and vented front seats, 2 zone hvac, V8 with 6 speed. MPG is almost equal to the 4runner, too.
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Old 01-03-2020, 12:05 PM #10
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You may have effectively talked me out of the 4Runner. Itís true I donít need the capability. My main likes are the ergonomics and low relative belt line (I drive with left elbow on window sill and 4R fits perfectly), ride height, and moonroof + rear window gives a convertible like experience. Plus itís cool.

I was interested in a Bronco but canít wait for it.

Outback XT Onyx is almost certainly a better overall fit for what I need the car for. Loses the cool factor for sure but the Onyx is a little more rugged looking.

Going to look at the Honda Passport too.
Saw a few honda passport elites this past holiday and have to say in really liking the design! See if you can test drive one
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Old 01-03-2020, 12:15 PM #11
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It does have similar cargo capacity and the overall size and height are almost identical. Also the torque vectoring AWD is very good. I hate the pushbutton shifter but whatever.
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Old 01-03-2020, 04:01 PM #12
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Wink

How about a nice mini van with a sleek molded clam shell cargo carrier and a bike rack? Somehow though, Iím thinkin a Buick with a console mounted bubbler would be a good fit. If you buy a 4R regardless of which model, youíll be back here in a few weeks sniveling and carping with the gaggle of poor MPG wailers who think because itís a Toyota it should get Prius like economy.
Kidding aside, make a list of must haves, do your comparison shopping and pull the trigger (for you easily triggered, Iím sayin figuratively ok). If in a year youíre not happy with the vehicle sell and get something else.
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Old 01-03-2020, 07:42 PM #13
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Limited. Itís the best 5th gen for snow driving because itís the only one that still maintains a Torsen center differential.
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Old 01-03-2020, 07:50 PM #14
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Limited. Itís the best 5th gen for snow driving because itís the only one that still maintains a Torsen center differential.
Going to drive one tomorrow. Itís what I wanted back in 2015. Is resale on those still good? I assume the more off-road focused T4Rs are better.

Drove the Outback Onyx XT today, too boring, despite being very functional. Wife is going to snuff me out in my sleep soon if I donít just buy something.
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Old 01-03-2020, 08:02 PM #15
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Going to drive one tomorrow. It’s what I wanted back in 2015. Is resale on those still good? I assume the more off-road focused T4Rs are better.

Drove the Outback Onyx XT today, too boring, despite being very functional. Wife is going to snuff me out in my sleep soon if I don’t just buy something.
Resale on every T4R is excellent... It’s more a 4WD vs 2WD thing, the 4WD trucks command better resale, doesn’t matter the trim level.

If on-road AWD performance is important to you, especially snow driving, the Limited is the only trim level that does it right. It’s how Toyota did it for the past few decades. The Torsen center diff is the same as what is used on the Land Cruiser, GX, and older generation 4Runners. To say the Limited is any less capable off-road would be a false statement. The Limited offers the most versatility in terms of on and off-road applications.
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