Destroyed Factory Roof Mounting Locations - Page 4 - Toyota 4Runner Forum

sn_85 · 01-07-2020, 12:13 PM

Honestly this might be a good time to find someone willing to do a roof pop top conversion. It could be the first 5th gen 4Runner with one!!!

uh0h50 · 01-07-2020, 08:05 PM

This has me concerned with my rack install ..

mynameistory · 01-07-2020, 08:32 PM

All,

I really encourage you to research the use of butyl rubber instead of silicone/RTV sealant when it comes to roof rack installations and other automotive applications.

Silicone sealant isn't meant for this kind of application. It hardens and dries out, retracting away from the joints (and often pulls paint as it goes). UV exposure is a HUGE detriment to most types of silicone sealant.

When you pull off your factory roof rack, you should have noticed that the factory sealant was still tacky and pliable, regardless of how long you've owned the truck. This is the kind of seal you need- not one that hardens into a rock under the sun. Butyl rubber stays tacky and is a dynamic seal, which is what you need for a dynamic outdoor environment.

Take a look at how and why I did my own seals for my aftermarket rack installation. It's my guess that the use of silicone is the failure point in this thread.

EcoTechne Roof Rack Installation (5th Gen)

ElectroBoy · 01-07-2020, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mynameistory

All,

I really encourage you to research the use of butyl rubber instead of silicone/RTV sealant when it comes to roof rack installations and other automotive applications.

Silicone sealant isn't meant for this kind of application. It hardens and dries out, retracting away from the joints (and often pulls paint as it goes). UV exposure is a HUGE detriment to most types of silicone sealant.

When you pull off your factory roof rack, you should have noticed that the factory sealant was still tacky and pliable, regardless of how long you've owned the truck. This is the kind of seal you need- not one that hardens into a rock under the sun. Butyl rubber stays tacky and is a dynamic seal, which is what you need for a dynamic outdoor environment.

Take a look at how and why I did my own seals for my aftermarket rack installation. It's my guess that the use of silicone is the failure point in this thread.

EcoTechne Roof Rack Installation (5th Gen)

Good point about silicone sealants. And some of them, the RTVs that are Acetoxysilane-based, release acetic acid during the curing process. This will eat into and corrode bare metals.

Hydguy · 01-07-2020, 11:32 PM

One reason I haven't pulled the trigger on a roof rack.

Some places use cheap hardware that doesn't play well with with other metals.

mynameistory · 01-07-2020, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hydguy

One reason I haven't pulled the trigger on a roof rack.

Some places use cheap hardware that doesn't play well with with other metals.

Not even close to the reason for this.

tylertenny · 01-08-2020, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mynameistory

All,

I really encourage you to research the use of butyl rubber instead of silicone/RTV sealant when it comes to roof rack installations and other automotive applications.

Silicone sealant isn't meant for this kind of application. It hardens and dries out, retracting away from the joints (and often pulls paint as it goes). UV exposure is a HUGE detriment to most types of silicone sealant.

When you pull off your factory roof rack, you should have noticed that the factory sealant was still tacky and pliable, regardless of how long you've owned the truck. This is the kind of seal you need- not one that hardens into a rock under the sun. Butyl rubber stays tacky and is a dynamic seal, which is what you need for a dynamic outdoor environment.

Take a look at how and why I did my own seals for my aftermarket rack installation. It's my guess that the use of silicone is the failure point in this thread.

EcoTechne Roof Rack Installation (5th Gen)

I've been following this thread and I currently have an LFD roof rack on order. After reading everything I'm worried about leaks after installation. Since I can't follow the same installation process you used because the LFD uses different hardware, I'm thinking that I could just put some butyl rubber around the base of the tubes and then cover that with some 3M super weatherstrip and gasket adhesive. Is putting more sealant over the butyl rubber overkill or would I be better off using one or the other?

mynameistory · 01-08-2020, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tylertenny

I've been following this thread and I currently have an LFD roof rack on order. After reading everything I'm worried about leaks after installation. Since I can't follow the same installation process you used because the LFD uses different hardware, I'm thinking that I could just put some butyl rubber around the base of the tubes and then cover that with some 3M super weatherstrip and gasket adhesive. Is putting more sealant over the butyl rubber overkill or would I be better off using one or the other?

I don't know the characteristics of those particular sealants. Can you add a few pictures of LFD mounting feet and hardware, or start your own thread for discussion? Whatever you do, do NOT use a sealant that is meant to cure and harden completely. Not only does this make for a bad seal, it makes the rack and hardware difficult to remove later (you do not want this).

Frankly, I think it's crazy that companies that sell racks just encourage you to use whatever sealant you can get your hands on. They're either ignorant to potential damage like this, or they don't care because they already have your money and 5 years will have gone by before anyone realizes the impact.

tylertenny · 01-08-2020, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mynameistory

I don't know the characteristics of those particular sealants. Can you add a few pictures of LFD mounting feet and hardware, or start your own thread for discussion? Whatever you do, do NOT use a sealant that is meant to cure and harden completely. Not only does this make for a bad seal, it makes the rack and hardware difficult to remove later (you do not want this).

Frankly, I think it's crazy that companies that sell racks just encourage you to use whatever sealant you can get your hands on. They're either ignorant to potential damage like this, or they don't care because they already have your money and 5 years will have gone by before anyone realizes the impact.

I apologize in advance if I'm hijacking this thread but I feel like these questions are relevant to the topic because I'm just trying to avoid damage to my roof mounts.

1:56 into the video shows the mounting hardware for this rack:

YouTube

This is the sealant I was looking at since it's made for automotive applications:

https://www.amazon.com/3M-08581-Blac...jaz10cnVl&th=1

I know this topic has been covered many times over but for someone installing a rack on their expensive vehicle for the first time it can be a little nerve-racking when there are differing opinions about the correct installation method.

mynameistory · 01-08-2020, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tylertenny

I apologize in advance if I'm hijacking this thread but I feel like these questions are relevant to the topic because I'm just trying to avoid damage to my roof mounts.

1:56 into the video shows the mounting hardware for this rack:

YouTube

This is the sealant I was looking at since it's made for automotive applications:

https://www.amazon.com/3M-08581-Blac...jaz10cnVl&th=1

I know this topic has been covered many times over but for someone installing a rack on their expensive vehicle for the first time it can be a little nerve-racking when there are differing opinions about the correct installation method.

I would still hesitate to use anything that cures into place, even if it's described as flexible. It may work, but how easy is it to remove if you change your mind in a few years?

For the LFD feet/spacer install, I would personally use butyl rubber under the spacer (make sure it gets squeezed into the little gaps around the tubes). As long as the rest of the hardware surfaces are clean, flat, and installed snugly, they should be okay and resist leaking through the threads. Blue Loctite should also help (it's a mild sealant and also temporary strength, not permanent threadlock).

daytonaviolet · 01-08-2020, 04:36 PM

Just wondering if you used the Oem bolts and rubber washers ? This is what my Oem rack came with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutBreak

After recently selling my roof rack I've had for 5 years and maybe taking it off twice during that time. I discovered when removing it, some pretty bad rust issues. Initially, I noticed bubbles and some flaking so I started looking a little harder then ended up removing the headliner and Holy Smokes! I was not happy with what I found, I sealed the holes when I put the rack on but somewhere water got in and destroyed some areas. I have rust spots/ holes in all four of the factory mounting locations. One being so bad I have a sever hole in between the door seam and roof seam. Now I am bouncing around ideas on how to fix everything, being at the seams is making it difficult for me. I know I need to cut out the bad areas and clean, then I will use something like POR-15 for rust protection, I'm unsure how to patch up the hole right in the seam, I've seen several threads on welding pieces and not using bondo. If it was a flat spot I could do it, being at the seam I'm at an impasse. ideas or thoughts appreciated.

Honestly thinking about pulling all my mods and jumping ship.

Hydguy · 01-08-2020, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mynameistory

Not even close to the reason for this.

Obviously you are wrong, as the pics in the original post clearly indicate.

rageandlove · 01-08-2020, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uh0h50

This has me concerned with my rack install ..

Sherpa sells a rack that doesn't require any sealing due to the design of the mounting system. Or at least that's the claim - I haven't ordered one yet, but I have talked to a few forum members that have put them on their vehicles and they seem to hold up to plenty of rain.

Thread on Sherpa on 5th Gen 4Runners here.

If Toyota can design a system that doesn't need sealants, it makes sense that other vendors could too.

mynameistory · 01-08-2020, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hydguy

Obviously you are wrong, as the pics in the original post clearly indicate.

Your post implied that this is the result of cheap hardware, of metals " that don't play well with with other metals."

I'm saying that galvanic corrosion is not the primary failure mode here. The primary reason for failure is the intrusion of water and moisture as a result of bad sealing methods. If you don't introduce moisture to the system, rampant oxidation (rust) can't occur to begin with. Also, even cheap hardware is usually coated in black oxide or zinc, which acts as a sacrificial anode, actually preserving the surrounding steel.

ForRun · 01-11-2020, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mynameistory

All,

I really encourage you to research the use of butyl rubber instead of silicone/RTV sealant when it comes to roof rack installations and other automotive applications.

Silicone sealant isn't meant for this kind of application. It hardens and dries out, retracting away from the joints (and often pulls paint as it goes). UV exposure is a HUGE detriment to most types of silicone sealant.

When you pull off your factory roof rack, you should have noticed that the factory sealant was still tacky and pliable, regardless of how long you've owned the truck. This is the kind of seal you need- not one that hardens into a rock under the sun. Butyl rubber stays tacky and is a dynamic seal, which is what you need for a dynamic outdoor environment.

Take a look at how and why I did my own seals for my aftermarket rack installation. It's my guess that the use of silicone is the failure point in this thread.

I have to ask because I could not find anything on the net about silicone being bad for paint in regards to sealing a roof rack as example. I saw multiple web sites saying that modern paint contains silicone as it helps flow through the sprayers. Some car wax contains silicone, windshield sealant is silicone.
Do you have any links that show its actually harmful? I'm just wondering because as I've used it in many automotive sealant areas like adding grommets for exterior lighting etc. maybe I haven't kept the rigs long enough to see damage but I've never read anything bad about until now. Thanks!

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