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Old 01-06-2020, 04:40 PM #1
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Overlanding Shock Upgrade Questions

I know this question has been asked a bunch, and I've read multiple threads on similar questions, but wanted to see if anyone had any insight into our situation, and why since I'm totally new to this world.

Noob car owner here looking to get some insight on upgrading a stock 2019 SR5 to better handle an overlanding setup and life on the road.

We'll be going on a 6+ month trip through the US this spring, we'll have a Trekboxx shelf system in the back, bike rack/bikes, kitchen gear, food, etc, plus a RTT. Estimating about 1200lbs of constant weight (which includes two humans), a lot of that obviously being over the rear axle.

This setup will be on the 4Runner for most summers, then taken out for winter time, so the shock setup would need to be manageable unloaded as well.

From what I've read, it seems like progressive coils for the back, or airbags would be two of the better solutions. I honestly just don't know or have the experience of which is a better option for our setup.

I'm also not sure if it would make sense to change the front shocks as well?

I've set aside a few thousand dollars for this part of the project, (hoping it won't be that much, but am prepared to spend it).

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
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Old 01-06-2020, 06:45 PM #2
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That’s a good chunk of extra weight. You’ll definitely sag the stock suspension a good bit.

You’ll want springs for sure for the extra weight. Also need to determine if you need/want any lift.

For shocks determine if you want to be able to rebuild them or not.

5100s and appropriate OME springs on the cheaper end. That’s what I run and I don’t have any complaints.

ICON is a pricier option and can be rebuilt.

Slinky springs with ICON shocks could be tuned for your specific needs but will be spendy. The last slinky dealer I knew that would put together custom setups stopped selling slinky though, I’m sure there are others.

Toyo also sells some complete kits.

Dobinson has been on here a lot and has some different options like 2” lift springs with various rates. I talked to them about a year ago, they could make a recommendation on a setup for you.

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Old 01-06-2020, 06:46 PM #3
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I have airbags, and they make for a bit of bounce when used. Still glad I have them, but they are not a complete solution with stock shocks.
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Old 01-06-2020, 06:54 PM #4
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If you don't need a lift - I'd just go with some air bags in the rear. I've run full air suspension (no coil springs, just air springs), air bags inside coils, and lift coils. IMO empty, the stock coils ride the best. The lift coils next. Then the air springs. Then the coils with air helper springs. BUT, once fully loaded - then I prefer the full air springs first, coils with air spring inside next. And towing my trailer I tend to like the coils with air helper springs. So... coils with air helper springs are probably the best option for you for heavy load sometimes and light load others. Just recognize that the empty ride will suffer - even if the air helper springs are empty. The good thing is that they're both cheap and easy to install, so if you hate them, you're only out $100 or so. I prefer the firestone over the airlift. Both work. I've had both on different 4Runners. IMO pay the extra $20 and get the firestone ones.

I'm not aware of any progressive coils that are less than 3" lift.

How much off road travel do you intend to do? That would be where you'd benefit most from upgrading the front suspension and/or rear shocks. For regular highway cruising and occasional dirt roads - IMO the stock suspension is just fine. I personally have fox suspension, but it's not really necessary for a road trip across the USA or typical fire roads.

Finally - a word of advice, the 4Runner doesn't haul weight super well. Do as much as you can to trim the fat and life will be a lot more enjoyable.

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Old 01-06-2020, 10:18 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
If you don't need a lift - I'd just go with some air bags in the rear. I've run full air suspension (no coil springs, just air springs), air bags inside coils, and lift coils. IMO empty, the stock coils ride the best. The lift coils next. Then the air springs. Then the coils with air helper springs. BUT, once fully loaded - then I prefer the full air springs first, coils with air spring inside next. And towing my trailer I tend to like the coils with air helper springs. So... coils with air helper springs are probably the best option for you for heavy load sometimes and light load others. Just recognize that the empty ride will suffer - even if the air helper springs are empty. The good thing is that they're both cheap and easy to install, so if you hate them, you're only out $100 or so. I prefer the firestone over the airlift. Both work. I've had both on different 4Runners. IMO pay the extra $20 and get the firestone ones.

I'm not aware of any progressive coils that are less than 3" lift.

How much off road travel do you intend to do? That would be where you'd benefit most from upgrading the front suspension and/or rear shocks. For regular highway cruising and occasional dirt roads - IMO the stock suspension is just fine. I personally have fox suspension, but it's not really necessary for a road trip across the USA or typical fire roads.

Finally - a word of advice, the 4Runner doesn't haul weight super well. Do as much as you can to trim the fat and life will be a lot more enjoyable.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

Are these the ones you're referring to? "Firestone Coil-Rite: 4135"

The majority of our travel is on roads and fire roads, but we also get on a fair amount of lesser traveled rougher roads to remote places. I'm a bit split on the lift, I feel it would help, especially with the heavy load we'll be carrying... Not leaving until May so we have lots of time, but want to get things sorted out sooner than later!
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:22 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimaylxa View Post
Thatís a good chunk of extra weight. Youíll definitely sag the stock suspension a good bit.

Youíll want springs for sure for the extra weight. Also need to determine if you need/want any lift.

For shocks determine if you want to be able to rebuild them or not.

5100s and appropriate OME springs on the cheaper end. Thatís what I run and I donít have any complaints.

ICON is a pricier option and can be rebuilt.

Slinky springs with ICON shocks could be tuned for your specific needs but will be spendy. The last slinky dealer I knew that would put together custom setups stopped selling slinky though, Iím sure there are others.

Toyo also sells some complete kits.

Dobinson has been on here a lot and has some different options like 2Ē lift springs with various rates. I talked to them about a year ago, they could make a recommendation on a setup for you.
Thanks for the help.

What are the benefits of being able to rebuild? As mentioned I'm new to cars in general, and honestly would prefer the simplest set up I can reasonably get away with.

I'm a bit split on the lift portion, I feel it would help, especially with the heavy load we'll be carrying... The majority of our travel is on roads and fire roads, but we also get on a fair amount of lesser traveled rougher roads to remote places.

I'll get in touch with Dobinson, have definitely been seeing their name around here a lot.
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Old 01-06-2020, 11:17 PM #7
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What about a small off road capable trailer? An enclosed one of course.

Constant 1200 lbs on a passenger vehicle sounds like a lot of weight.
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Old 01-06-2020, 11:24 PM #8
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That's a lot of extra weight for sure. Is that purely cargo or armor also? And how is the weight distributed front to back?

I'd lean towards the air bag solution that Jetboy detailed. If you try to carry that much with purely the coils the unloaded ride will be really harsh. Although considering what you detailed maybe that's not a concern.
Definitely look into Dobinson's and contact Mike. He's very helpful. I have had two of their progressive coils in the rear and they are very nice. They have one or two heavier rate progressive coils than they list in their thread. I think it's a +800# variable rate coil IIRC

Another thing to consider if you're going to be that heavy is going to a 2.5" shock/strut to help manage things better, maybe even reservoirs. I found going up to 2.5's made a big difference in ride quality

I'd really put a pencil to what you're planning on hauling and see if you can cut some weight back or find lighter alternatives. (Consider aluminum armor for instance) The 4Runner really isn't that great with a ton of weight on it as was said.
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Old 01-06-2020, 11:24 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _#1_ View Post
What about a small off road capable trailer? An enclosed one of course.

Constant 1200 lbs on a passenger vehicle sounds like a lot of weight.
I'm being really conservative with the numbers as we're just planning and don't know the actual weight of all the equipment/gear yet. Hoping it's more like 900-1000lbs.
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Old 01-06-2020, 11:27 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambalayas View Post
I'm being really conservative with the numbers as we're just planning and don't know the actual weight of all the equipment/gear yet. Hoping it's more like 900-1000lbs.
Maybe give us an idea of what you're considering and someone might have some insight. My rig is pretty heavy to start with and I'm not sure I get that heavy fully loaded with 2 adults, 2 teens, and two labs
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Old 01-06-2020, 11:27 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comtn4x4 View Post
That's a lot of extra weight for sure. Is that purely cargo or armor also? And how is the weight distributed front to back?

I'd lean towards the air bag solution that Jetboy detailed. If you try to carry that much with purely the coils the unloaded ride will be really harsh. Although considering what you detailed maybe that's not a concern.
Definitely look into Dobinson's and contact Mike. He's very helpful. I have had two of their progressive coils in the rear and they are very nice. They have one or two heavier rate progressive coils than they list in their thread. I think it's a +800# variable rate coil IIRC

Another thing to consider if you're going to be that heavy is going to a 2.5" shock/strut to help manage things better, maybe even reservoirs. I found going up to 2.5's made a big difference in ride quality

I'd really put a pencil to what you're planning on hauling and see if you can cut some weight back or find lighter alternatives. (Consider aluminum armor for instance) The 4Runner really isn't that great with a ton of weight on it as was said.
That's just gear, but I'm being super conservative with the numbers as we're still in the planning phase and don't know the actuals. Not pulling the trigger on anything shock wise until we have a much better idea of the actual weight, but trying to gather info and knowledge as I'm out of my depth with this sort of stuff.

Sent Mike a note, hopefully he replies!

Originally I was looking at the Fox 2.5 or King coilovers with reservoir. Obviously this is on the seriously pricey end, and would love to get more info on those and the benefits of such a serious upgrade.
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Old 01-06-2020, 11:52 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comtn4x4 View Post
Maybe give us an idea of what you're considering and someone might have some insight. My rig is pretty heavy to start with and I'm not sure I get that heavy fully loaded with 2 adults, 2 teens, and two labs
Rear:
Trekboxx Alpha with Zulu 2 Drawer - 270lbs
Dometic CFX 50W fully loaded w/food - 70ish
Dry goods & kitchen gear - 70lbs?
5gal water jug - 45lbs
Kuat NV 2.0 - 30lbs
Kuat Pivot v2 - 39lbs
Bikes - 60lbs

Roof:
iKamper SkyCamp - 150lbs

Behind front seats:
Second cooler behind driver seat, fully loaded - 60lbs
Water jug #2 behind passenger seat - 45lbs
Clothes/jackets/shoes/bike gear - 30lbs
Toolbox & misc tools - 35lbs
Battery pack - 17lbs
Solar panel - 26lbs

Front:
Humans - 330lbs

Total of 1277lbs.
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Old 01-07-2020, 12:02 AM #13
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1200 lbs is a ton of weight. I am fully armored (front lopro and rear dual swing) and even loaded down don’t get up that high.

My $0.02 –
1. Tires: Get some decent C rated tires. Don’t go up to 285s or you might run into rubbing issues.
2. Springs: Bump to a 2” lift. I have Icons, they work fine, but so do almost all of them. Springs are not complicated to make.
3. Shocks: You can dump a ton of money here and never see it. Unless you are hitting miles and miles of washboard roads at speed, remotes are unnecessary. If you don’t need remotes, then get non rebuildables. I have rebuilt my Icons, it is not hard, but why mess with it. Bilsteens are nice (some complaints about corrosion but not a big deal). OMEs are nice (less corrosion concerns, some people don’t like bright yellow shocks - spray paint works).
4. On Board Air: Spend the money on an ARB dual compressor. Yes, it is $500. But airing down your C rated tires will do more for your ride than any suspension components under 40 mph. (Don’t take your 4R off any “sweet jumps” and you will be fine). Airing down is not sexy. It sucks. You get dirty. It is not as sexy and “high end” shocks. It works.
5. Airbags: I don’t have them, but I have looked into them. I haven’t found that I need them. Even fully loaded (fridge, tent, drawers, recovery gear, dual swings with 10 gal of fuel And 6lbs of propane) I still was level or even a slight bit of rake with the Icon 2” springs. That being said, since you will already have OBA (see number 4) what’s $100 for airbags? Just let me know how they worked out.

I could keep going, but just send me a PM if you are interested in more info. Happy to help.
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Old 01-07-2020, 12:23 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambalayas View Post
Rear:
Trekboxx Alpha with Zulu 2 Drawer - 270lbs
Dometic CFX 50W fully loaded w/food - 70ish
Dry goods & kitchen gear - 70lbs?
5gal water jug - 45lbs
Kuat NV 2.0 - 30lbs
Kuat Pivot v2 - 39lbs
Bikes - 60lbs

Roof:
iKamper SkyCamp - 150lbs

Behind front seats:
Second cooler behind driver seat, fully loaded - 60lbs
Water jug #2 behind passenger seat - 45lbs
Clothes/jackets/shoes/bike gear - 30lbs
Toolbox & misc tools - 35lbs
Battery pack - 17lbs
Solar panel - 26lbs

Front:
Humans - 330lbs

Total of 1277lbs.
So how many days are you planning on being so remote there's no water or a store for food within a reasonable drive? 2 coolers, 10 gallons of water and 70# of dry goods is quite a lot. (does that include propane?)
Maybe consider hitting town more often? Get a water filter?
I didn't see extra fuel on your list or recovery gear unless that's in with your tools.
A ground tent setup would save a bunch of weight too. No camp chairs or a table?
That drawer system is heavy pig. My rear bumper doesn't even weigh that much.

I don't think you could leave your front end stock with that kind of load.

Bottom line that's definitely do able. I probably carry more than that all told. Do A test run and see if you can cut some gear or food back. The more times I go out the less I bring with me it seems. Over the years I've cut our set up way back
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Old 01-07-2020, 12:31 AM #15
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Quote:
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So how many days are you planning on being so remote there's no water or a store for food within a reasonable drive? 2 coolers, 10 gallons of water and 70# of dry goods is quite a lot. (does that include propane?)
Maybe consider hitting town more often? Get a water filter?
I didn't see extra fuel on your list or recovery gear unless that's in with your tools.
A ground tent setup would save a bunch of weight too. No camp chairs or a table?
That drawer system is heavy pig. My rear bumper doesn't even weigh that much.

I don't think you could leave your front end stock with that kind of load.

Bottom line that's definitely do able. I probably carry more than that all told. Do A test run and see if you can cut some gear or food back. The more times I go out the less I bring with me it seems. Over the years I've cut our set up way back
Can probably reduce the water, although we ride a lot and that ups intake. And there will be times where we're out for days.

As I said, being really conservative. We haven't tested the setup yet as we don't have the drawer system. That weight is also an estimate from the owner, not sure what it actually is.

70# is for stove, pots, pans, cutlery, dry goods, propane, chairs. Again not sure what this number will actually be.

Table is included with the drawers.

We'll definitely be refining and reducing the list as we test things out leading up to the trip, but that's my initial list.
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