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Old 01-11-2020, 09:53 PM #16
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Originally Posted by CMTAZ View Post
Well.... I have one of each, so here goes:


The JGC was mine till I retired, then my wife commandeered it (she loves the JGC). Mine was a 3.6 with front wheel drive.


Why did you switch and what were your experiences? / Ride comfort on road? If you are looking for a SUV / CUV comfort ride the JGC is more plush than the T4R. Whenever i drive the Jeep now, "it just feels light" it also is ALOT more responsive off the line.


Off road ability? sorry i'm not taking the FWD grocery getter / home depot hauler off road, the T4R owns this.


Reliability? Jeep has been good, had a sensor go bad shortly after i bought it. Fixed by the dealer at no cost. That said i do have Jeeps lifetime warranty, but if she tires of the JGC i'll probably just get her a Lexus RX / GX.


Features? / What do you miss? I miss the power liftgate, and the JGC interior is real leather (you can tell the difference). The 8" screen, uconnect has both pluses and minuses over entune. The gas mileage 28 - 30 mpg.


What don't you miss? I personally like driving the T4R as it feels bigger and heavier. In someway entune is better that uconnect.


Would you/will you switch back? For now i'm happy with the T4R, and Toyota reliability and value.


JGC - comfortable grocery getter / home depot hauler.

T4R - way more rugged, more "planted" on the road. Also can double as a grocery getter / home depot hauler.
Thank you so much. This has bee very helpful.

It is too bad that they dropped the lifetime warranty - although lifetime with some Jeep products can be measured in single digit years.

How is entune better? Reviewers generally give the uconnect system high marks.
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Old 01-11-2020, 09:59 PM #17
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I came from a 2011 Grand Cherokee

Why did you switch and what were your experiences?
The reliability of the Jeep was the worst I ever had.

Ride comfort on road?
Jeep was great when it was running.

Off road ability?
Not really off road, lets talk snow. I drove the Jeep over Snoqualmie pass (WA state) in the middle of some crazy snow storm and it performed excellent.
The T4R has been great so far but hast been in the same conditions yet. Well see what this next week brings.

Reliability?
T4R will take this hands down.
The Jeep was bought used and very quickly went out of the factory warranty and the Lemon Law did not apply. Luckily I had the Chrysler Max care so the pain I am about to describe was covered with a minimal deductible.
- Motorized rear hatch would close short by about 6 inches then open again. I could manually push it down but due to the motor it was really difficult with a bad back. It took the dealer multiple times over a couple years, everything was replaced at least twice, would work for a while then do the same.
- The air suspension was awesome until it wasn't. I would be driving down the road and out of nowhere all of a sudden my front end was up and my back end was low like a low rider dragging ass. This went on for a few years on and off. It would usually fix itself before I got it to the dealer and they could see the error code but wouldn't do anything if they couldn't see the problem. When they did see it they would replace something and say it was fixed.
One day I came home after a very long drive back form eastern WA where the error "check air suspension" was showing for about an hour. I parked and could hear the air compressor working. I figured ok, Ill put my bag in the garage and pull the fuse, here comes another dealer trip when BOOM! I turn around and see white smoke at the front right corner. The compressor literally blew apart. They replaced it and a week later the jeep was back in the shop for 4 months. They literally replaced everything twice, had the master tech (or whatever they call them) fly out and ended up reusing an original part to make it work.
BTW... the whole time they only gave me a loaner for a month.
- The flaps that route air for heat or cold would get stuck every couple years and they would need to get into the box to replace the seals that were melting in the heat over the summer and would get stuck.
- My favorite issue was the rainy day my wiper motor stopped. I was driving along and all of a sudden - no wipers.
- EVERY service dept that was anywhere near me (3 dealers) was always booked out at least 4 weeks.
- One of the early issues was a red fluid dripping. They replaced the power steering pump. I get it home, still leaks and then they replace the trans cooler. Long story here but they came out to clean my driveway after that one. A few days later its not shifting right. I take it back, they pull it around back and bring it over a few minutes later to tell me they topped off the trans fluid. Cool right. Nope. Same issue and a few days later I come back. Talk to a different service guy and he tells me they cant do that, its a closed system and needs to be hooked up to a machine. I need an appt. They freaking LIED to my face.
- Next time you see a Jeep GC look at the headlights. I dont mean when using a turn signal. You'll start to notice that a lot of the Jeep GCs on the road have one light out. Not when using turn signals, there always a light out. I think mine was always on the drivers side. There is clearly a design flaw and those things eat headlight bulbs. They are HID so you know they are expensive. AT least I do.
- Last one was some sensor that would get dirty and cause the Jeep to go into limp mode. If I stepped on the gas it would lag like it had no power and go nowhere. The first time it happened I was in front of a semi and needed to get out of the way. This happened three times and was traded in for the T4R after the third.

Features?
Jeep had more. When it was running the Jeep was nice. Not plush but damn nice.

What do you miss?
Heated Steering wheel.

What don't you miss?
The Jeep as a whole and the fear that I could be stranded at any moment. I wondered every morning what would happen today.

Would you/will you switch back?
I think the answer is obvious but if you need the answer... **** NO!
Thank you. You've verified that getting a reliable Jeep is a bit of a crap shoot and dealerships are a bit iffy.

I think the Jeep is off the table. I was a bit mesmerized by all the features that you don't get on the 4R (full speed ACC, park assist, heated steering wheel, air suspension etc.), but remembered that all that stuff breaks - and a lot more frequently on the Jeep.
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Old 01-11-2020, 10:06 PM #18
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As a kind of telling note, I posted the same question both here, an Acura forum and the Grand Cherokee forum.

Here and on the Acura forum, the answers have been leaning towards the 4R. I was a bit surprised by that on the Acura forum, thinking that I'd get a few recommendations for the RDX)

On the GC forum, there have been almost 90 views and zero responses...
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Old 01-11-2020, 10:07 PM #19
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They changed the shifter back to something normal after they squished the "star trek dude" between his mailbox and his car.
Actually the 1st software update was causing them to have erratic operation and bricking the damn things. I traded mine in that day before word got out. Never looked back and I won't until someone buys them from fiat and fixes the mess
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Old 01-11-2020, 10:10 PM #20
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Actually the 1st software update was causing them to have erratic operation and bricking the damn things. I traded mine in that day before word got out. Never looked back and I won't until someone buys them from fiat and fixes the mess
Sad, because they look great, have nice features and decent fit and finish (except for paint).
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Old 01-12-2020, 01:34 AM #21
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Heated steering wheel on Jeep is awesome.
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Old 01-12-2020, 12:56 PM #22
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Originally Posted by cb1111 View Post
Thank you so much. This has bee very helpful.

It is too bad that they dropped the lifetime warranty - although lifetime with some Jeep products can be measured in single digit years.

How is entune better? Reviewers generally give the uconnect system high marks.
If they dropped the lifetime warranty - i'm not sure i'd buy another.

Uconnect has 3 major flaws. 1: occasionally the system will lock up and get confused, it will not play music from your flash drive, once rebooted it is fine. 2: If you update your music flash drive, it can take a while (15+ minutes) to read the drive and begin to play music.

The last is a little more serious: Uconnect will sort music based on the MP3 TITLE TAG not the filename. This means that if you are listing to an album and the 1st song is "Tom Sawyer", and the 5th song is "A Farewell to Kings"
AFTK will play first. It also basically prohibits listening to a live concert. There is a workaround to this i developed (and got free a Jeep wave extension), but it is a pain in the butt.

Both vehicles are good solid vehicles, i personally prefer the T4R, when the Jeep gets to 50 - 60k (which will take another 2 years) I'll think about replacing hers, possibly with a RX or GX.

(Rush example used in tribute to Neil Peart)
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Old 01-12-2020, 01:23 PM #23
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My son who's a die hard Jeep fan is the one who suggested i get the 4R. Hes had 2 Cherokees and a 3 Wranglers. Him an i used to work on them quite often. What was cool about the Jeeps was they never needed a oil change, just add a quart every few weeks since it leaked and burned oil so much. lol

His reasoning suggesting the 4R for me was that the 4R would be way more reliable, quieter and a much better ride. I'm super happy i didn't go with a Jeep.

Last edited by Ripper238; 01-12-2020 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 01-12-2020, 01:55 PM #24
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Thanks for the insights so far. How did the on-road comfort compare?



It sounds like the reliability might not be as horrible as the reputation Jeep has had in the past - although I've not been overly impressed by the service departments.But then again, the Toyota service departments aren't anything to write home to mother about either.



How does the on-road ride compare?


Iíve had zero issues with 4 different departments. Iím not sure why people have issues. Maybe they expect to be coddled every time they go in?
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Old 01-12-2020, 01:55 PM #25
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I used to love Jeep until Fiat ruined them. Read the news, 2019 and 2020 Wrangler the frames have faulty welds and are rusting bad.
Back to the WK2.
I loved it until one ran over the Star trek dude back in early 2016. Fiat who can't write software if you paid them double rolled out a premature software update that ruined my tranny.
Only thing I miss is the hid stock headlights, combined with the srt oem fogs was freaking amazing.
Other than that, I forgot to mention, they also ruined my 15 Cherokee KL trailhawk and had to buy it back due to ....here it is. A software update cashed the tranny. 3 tranny's later and 2 months of rentals sucked


Chryslerís has issues long before fiat got age old of them.
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Old 01-12-2020, 04:49 PM #26
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A lady friend of mine who was living with me at the time had a Grand Cherokee and it was a real POS. Things constantly breaking on it, leaked fluids all the time. She finally moved out. I had two older Jeeps a 51 willys and a 64 Jeep wagoneer. Both were bulletproof and awesome vehicles. I almost bought a 1974 Jeep CJ5 brand new but went with a Toyota Land cruiser instead and I've been with Toyota vehicles ever since. Never a problem of any consequence. It's a shame the Jeep line has gone downhill in such a bad way regarding their reliability. In my book reliability trumps features by a long shot and my 4Runner gives me my number one requirement, reliability for the Long haul. The features it comes with are more than adequate for me.
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Old 01-12-2020, 09:29 PM #27
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Originally Posted by CMTAZ View Post
If they dropped the lifetime warranty - i'm not sure i'd buy another.

Uconnect has 3 major flaws. 1: occasionally the system will lock up and get confused, it will not play music from your flash drive, once rebooted it is fine. 2: If you update your music flash drive, it can take a while (15+ minutes) to read the drive and begin to play music.

The last is a little more serious: Uconnect will sort music based on the MP3 TITLE TAG not the filename. This means that if you are listing to an album and the 1st song is "Tom Sawyer", and the 5th song is "A Farewell to Kings"
AFTK will play first. It also basically prohibits listening to a live concert. There is a workaround to this i developed (and got free a Jeep wave extension), but it is a pain in the butt.

Both vehicles are good solid vehicles, i personally prefer the T4R, when the Jeep gets to 50 - 60k (which will take another 2 years) I'll think about replacing hers, possibly with a RX or GX.

(Rush example used in tribute to Neil Peart)
MOPAR dropped the lifetime plan in 2017 or 2018. Now, the longest you can get is an 8 year 150k mile plan - still not bad, but speaks to FCA's lack of confidence in their products.

All the uconnect issues are another vote for the 4R's archaic system...

Thanks again.

I've gotten over the lack of far rear AC for my avatar and the halogen headlights. The only thing holding me back is lack of assurance about on-road ride - something difficult to ascertain on a test drive.

I've driven a GC for a month as a rental in Colorado back in 2010 (so I assume a 2010) and it was perfectly nice. I've driven a GX for a few days as a loaner and it was perfectly nice. I drove a 2016 Wrangler and would shoot myself if I had that as a daily driver. I've put 20k miles on a 2002 RX and the drive is perfectly fine (as long as you don't need to make a u-turn, park, you're under 6ft so your knee doesn't smash into the center console while driving and you never use the cup holders - I hate that car but I can't kill it and it still looks like new).

So, where does the on-road ride (either something with KDSS, a TRD PRO or a Limited)compare? Would I be as happy (or happier) driving from the east coast to Colorado as I was in my TSX wagon?
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Old 01-12-2020, 09:31 PM #28
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A lady friend of mine who was living with me at the time had a Grand Cherokee and it was a real POS. Things constantly breaking on it, leaked fluids all the time. She finally moved out. I had two older Jeeps a 51 willys and a 64 Jeep wagoneer. Both were bulletproof and awesome vehicles. I almost bought a 1974 Jeep CJ5 brand new but went with a Toyota Land cruiser instead and I've been with Toyota vehicles ever since. Never a problem of any consequence. It's a shame the Jeep line has gone downhill in such a bad way regarding their reliability. In my book reliability trumps features by a long shot and my 4Runner gives me my number one requirement, reliability for the Long haul. The features it comes with are more than adequate for me.
Was that the girlfriend or the GC?
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:09 PM #29
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So, where does the on-road ride (either something with KDSS, a TRD PRO or a Limited)compare? Would I be as happy (or happier) driving from the east coast to Colorado as I was in my TSX wagon?
I have an SR5, with a recently installed Eibach Pro Truck Kit. Before the kit was installed the ride was comfortable, a little mushy in the turns. After the kit the ride is comfortable and a little "tighter or more planted on the road". Personally i LOVE the new feel to the T4R.

one of the reasons people buy the T4R is because they are fairly easy (albeit not cheap) to mod.

that said, think of it this way: (this is an oversimplification)
if your driving cross country and you'd like to do it with the ride of an impala - the JGC is the choice (super plush and comfy). If you'd rather do the drive in a RAM / F150, the T4R is a great place to start (knowing the tires and suspension are some of the first mods made to these vehicles).
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:08 PM #30
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Don't buy a JGC new, it will lose about 10 grand driving it off the lot. Reliability has been horrible. Sometimes people get lucky, I guess the ones that are lucky are the ones that were built by Chrysler employees who don't smoke pot at lunch.

It drives much more comfortably than a 4Runner, but it has 4wheel independent suspension and is not body on frame. Of course it drives better and of course it gets better gas mileage. But it won't match the 4Runner in off-road prowess. I bought my 4Runner to go off road.
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