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Old 05-31-2020, 06:49 PM #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thennen View Post
While most of what you say may be true, ElectroBoy is still correct in his response to someone saying they need to get this handled themselves. You can't fulfill the conditions of a recall outside of the stated recall parameters. You can replace parts, but you can't satisfy the conditions of the recall. You may even provide yourself a false sense of security by unknowingly swapping in a defective fuel pump.

I do disagree with this, though: "A dangerous airbag can be avoided by driving with extra caution". Ever been in an accident that wasn't your fault? Did you attempt to avoid it? And the curious thing - out of about 63 million recalls, only 8+ million airbags have been replaced, and that recall was issued in 2016. I imagine the majority of that is just negligence on the part of the owners.
I agree on the differences between recall and elective replacement of the defective parts.

My issue was with him stating the we just need to be patient and wait just like the airbag recall. The airbags are a safety feature not a function of the daily / normal operation of the vehicle. My argument is that itís not ok to sit and be patient, however poorly I stated it previously.

Again my opinion but it is not acceptable to allow defective & crash prone vehicles to be operated ever. Every day is another risk not only to us driving them but to Toyota for having such a slow and relaxed response...
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Old 05-31-2020, 10:03 PM #137
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Something really isn't adding up for sure though. If the fix was that easy they would have the pump swap for the '15 listed with a date for the recall remedy. Something beyond just a fuel pump is wrong with the '15s is the only conclusion I can come up with as its set aside from all other years and models. Will be giving the Toyota recall number a call early this week to dig deeper.
I agree that something isn't adding up. It's very hard to find any sort of information on what to do or how to make sure my rig is and will stay safe.

Looking forward to your update, and thank you for taking the time to call the recall number to dig.
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Old 05-31-2020, 10:04 PM #138
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Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob View Post
You can't pay to have it fixed because there is no fix yet. And when there is a fix, you won't have to pay for it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it's a faulty fuel pump, technically couldn't I buy an aftermarket fuel pump (pay for it) and have it installed?

I rather be safe than wait for Toyota's legal team to decide what their most cost effective next move is.
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Old 05-31-2020, 11:15 PM #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eskewsy View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it's a faulty fuel pump, technically couldn't I buy an aftermarket fuel pump (pay for it) and have it installed?

I rather be safe than wait for Toyota's legal team to decide what their most cost effective next move is.
You can, but it will be on your dime; not Toyota's and who is to say the aftermarket pump is any better.
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Old 05-31-2020, 11:35 PM #140
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Which aftermarket fuel pump? Is there such a thing? And if there is, itís probably a copy of the OE part and likely has the same defect. And what is that defect, by the way? None of us know. How can we or anyone else fix whatís wrong, if we donít even know what it is?

In any case, I really think you are grossly exaggerating the risk. These types of recalls are very common these days, and are done out of an abundance of caution. There are lawyers and regulators somewhere imagining the worst case scenario. This recall is affecting cars at least as far back as 2013 - do you really think millions of Toyotas are going to have LPFP failures in the next couple of months? Even if your pump did go, you would be far more likely to just get stranded than have a catastrophic outcome.
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Old 06-01-2020, 01:55 AM #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob View Post
...And what is that defect, by the way? None of us know...
If you start reading back at post 80 there are links by @cb1111 to more info on Toyotaís early failure analysis.
Fuel Pump Recall

One link describes the problem observed with the impellers from failed pumps. At the time of this report the investigators had not been able to duplicate the exact failure mode of test units. Maybe there are updated progress reports that someone could find. Toyota must understand the problem better and is tracking the installed parts better since theyíve narrowed it down to 14-15 model years. It would be good to see Toyotaís latest reports on this.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/202...0V012-4705.pdf

Hereís an excerpt:
ď Description of Problem:
The subject vehicles are equipped with a low-pressure fuel pump, located in the fuel tank, that supplies fuel pressure to the fuel injection system. These fuel pumps contain an impeller that could deform due to excessive fuel absorption. Although the cause is unknown, if impeller deformation occurs, the impeller may interfere with the fuel pump body, and this could result in illumination of check engine and master warning indicators, rough engine running, engine no start and/or vehicle stall while driving at low speed. However, in rare instances, vehicle stall could occur while driving at higher speeds, increasing the risk of a crash.Ē
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:24 AM #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thennen View Post
While most of what you say may be true, ElectroBoy is still correct in his response to someone saying they need to get this handled themselves. You can't fulfill the conditions of a recall outside of the stated recall parameters. You can replace parts, but you can't satisfy the conditions of the recall. You may even provide yourself a false sense of security by unknowingly swapping in a defective fuel pump.

I do disagree with this, though: "A dangerous airbag can be avoided by driving with extra caution". Ever been in an accident that wasn't your fault? Did you attempt to avoid it? And the curious thing - out of about 63 million recalls, only 8+ million airbags have been replaced, and that recall was issued in 2016. I imagine the majority of that is just negligence on the part of the owners.
Yea, odd way of putting it "avoided with extra caution".
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Old 06-01-2020, 01:49 PM #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectroBoy View Post
“These fuel pumps contain an impeller that could deform due to excessive fuel absorption. Although the cause is unknown, if impeller deformation occurs, the impeller may interfere with the fuel pump body...
This is my point. Anyone can make a reasonable guess as to what is going on, but the fact is that Toyota has not publicly acknowledged the precise nature of the defect (and probably never will). Presumably, they are making changes to the part and testing before rolling out to the millions of customers affected. Given that this is part of the fueling system, it's not unreasonable to think that there might even be associated software changes required as a result of any hardware change. All of this to say that there is no path to an assured fix short of just waiting for Toyota to do it, on their timeline. Anyone who is concerned enough that they fear driving their vehicle in the meantime might consider asking their dealer to cover a rental car. I'm sure they won't volunteer to do so, but I heard of it happening with owners affected by the Takata airbag recall.
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:23 PM #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob View Post
Which aftermarket fuel pump? Is there such a thing? And if there is, it’s probably a copy of the OE part and likely has the same defect. And what is that defect, by the way? None of us know. How can we or anyone else fix what’s wrong, if we don’t even know what it is?

In any case, I really think you are grossly exaggerating the risk. These types of recalls are very common these days, and are done out of an abundance of caution. There are lawyers and regulators somewhere imagining the worst case scenario. This recall is affecting cars at least as far back as 2013 - do you really think millions of Toyotas are going to have LPFP failures in the next couple of months? Even if your pump did go, you would be far more likely to just get stranded than have a catastrophic outcome.
All fair statements, as with me I am not worried. I once had my entire set (yes, all 4) brakes fall off of my vehicle while driving at 70MPH, everything ended up fine, I just don't know if my wife will panic with the kids in the car if the engine stalls, hell even at 10mph. Ha! Hence my concern, but I get it. ;)
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:30 PM #145
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Originally Posted by eskewsy View Post
All fair statements, as with me I am not worried. I once had my entire set (yes, all 4) brakes fall off of my vehicle while driving at 70MPH, everything ended up fine, I just don't know if my wife will panic with the kids in the car if the engine stalls, hell even at 10mph. Ha! Hence my concern, but I get it. ;)
You need to tell that brake story some day - yow!
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:36 PM #146
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Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob View Post
This is my point. Anyone can make a reasonable guess as to what is going on, but the fact is that Toyota has not publicly acknowledged the precise nature of the defect (and probably never will). Presumably, they are making changes to the part and testing before rolling out to the millions of customers affected. Given that this is part of the fueling system, it's not unreasonable to think that there might even be associated software changes required as a result of any hardware change. All of this to say that there is no path to an assured fix short of just waiting for Toyota to do it, on their timeline. Anyone who is concerned enough that they fear driving their vehicle in the meantime might consider asking their dealer to cover a rental car. I'm sure they won't volunteer to do so, but I heard of it happening with owners affected by the Takata airbag recall.
Agreed. I think it's Denso who made the pump, and they have a decades-long relationship with Toyota. I can imagine Toyota is leaning on them pretty hard right now - Denso has a lot to lose, and other suppliers would love that contract. Once a resolution is arrived at, I'm sure they'll simulate millions of miles of testing before releasing a fix. There must be thousands of process items to address with even the most minor recalls.
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Old 06-01-2020, 04:36 PM #147
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My 2004 4Runner airbag light came on about a year prior to the airbag recall which cost me close to $1000 to get it fixed. When the recall came out, I contacted Toyota about the work I had done to fix the problem which turned out was same part being replaced by the recall, though I donít know for sure was the same problem. Toyota did reimburse me the total amount paid. It cost me a bit of time and effort to prove to Toyota what was done, but it worked out in the end. In my case the repair work was performed at a Toyota dealership and I donít know if it hadnít been what additional hurdles I would have had to jump through or if I would have been reimbursed.
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Old 06-01-2020, 05:52 PM #148
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My 2004 4Runner airbag light came on about a year prior to the airbag recall which cost me close to $1000 to get it fixed. When the recall came out, I contacted Toyota about the work I had done to fix the problem which turned out was same part being replaced by the recall, though I donít know for sure was the same problem. Toyota did reimburse me the total amount paid. It cost me a bit of time and effort to prove to Toyota what was done, but it worked out in the end. In my case the repair work was performed at a Toyota dealership and I donít know if it hadnít been what additional hurdles I would have had to jump through or if I would have been reimbursed.
That's good to hear. I can imagine that any automaker needs to be diligent about weeding out fake claims when it comes to recalls. In you case, having had the repair done at the dealership likely placed the burden back onto Toyota. Good for you.
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Old 06-01-2020, 11:56 PM #149
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Which aftermarket fuel pump? Is there such a thing? ...
They have very nice aftermarket fuel pumps. They call them "racing" because they are capable of higher fuel flow. The turbocharger crowd likes these things.

URD 2010+ Toyota 4Runner Fuel Pump/Filter Upgrade Kit - Underdog Racing Development

If you read the whole page carefully along with the links to the various model pumps you can select, it's quite interesting.
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Old 06-10-2020, 01:44 PM #150
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Quick Update after getting in touch with Toyota's Recall Phone Line, It took me three calls over three days to get through and Im paraphrasing here:

Toyota placed a large order for the faulty pumps at the onset of the recall process. The factories producing them were closed early on during the pandemic which is why we are seeing delays in the pump arrivals / remedy timing.

No information besides the remedy date was available to set 2015's apart from the rest according to the tech's e-mails. He appeared highly competent and put me on hold for about 5 min to read through the updates he received on his end.

The tech also mentioned to check back in about 30 days for another update and offered a loaner vehicle through Toyota if I felt the need. (Im working from home and hardly driving so I declined)

Not the most useful update but thought I would share anyways for those concerned.
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