05-31-2020, 06:49 PM
|
#136
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Denver
Posts: 285
|
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Denver
Posts: 285
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by thennen
While most of what you say may be true, ElectroBoy is still correct in his response to someone saying they need to get this handled themselves. You can't fulfill the conditions of a recall outside of the stated recall parameters. You can replace parts, but you can't satisfy the conditions of the recall. You may even provide yourself a false sense of security by unknowingly swapping in a defective fuel pump.
I do disagree with this, though: "A dangerous airbag can be avoided by driving with extra caution". Ever been in an accident that wasn't your fault? Did you attempt to avoid it? And the curious thing - out of about 63 million recalls, only 8+ million airbags have been replaced, and that recall was issued in 2016. I imagine the majority of that is just negligence on the part of the owners.
|
I agree on the differences between recall and elective replacement of the defective parts.
My issue was with him stating the we just need to be patient and wait just like the airbag recall. The airbags are a safety feature not a function of the daily / normal operation of the vehicle. My argument is that it’s not ok to sit and be patient, however poorly I stated it previously.
Again my opinion but it is not acceptable to allow defective & crash prone vehicles to be operated ever. Every day is another risk not only to us driving them but to Toyota for having such a slow and relaxed response...
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
05-31-2020, 10:03 PM
|
#137
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 9
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 9
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Dusty
Something really isn't adding up for sure though. If the fix was that easy they would have the pump swap for the '15 listed with a date for the recall remedy. Something beyond just a fuel pump is wrong with the '15s is the only conclusion I can come up with as its set aside from all other years and models. Will be giving the Toyota recall number a call early this week to dig deeper.
|
I agree that something isn't adding up. It's very hard to find any sort of information on what to do or how to make sure my rig is and will stay safe.
Looking forward to your update, and thank you for taking the time to call the recall number to dig.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
05-31-2020, 10:04 PM
|
#138
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 9
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 9
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob
You can't pay to have it fixed because there is no fix yet. And when there is a fix, you won't have to pay for it.
|
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it's a faulty fuel pump, technically couldn't I buy an aftermarket fuel pump (pay for it) and have it installed?
I rather be safe than wait for Toyota's legal team to decide what their most cost effective next move is.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
05-31-2020, 11:15 PM
|
#139
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: U. S. A.
Posts: 1,014
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: U. S. A.
Posts: 1,014
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskewsy
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it's a faulty fuel pump, technically couldn't I buy an aftermarket fuel pump (pay for it) and have it installed?
I rather be safe than wait for Toyota's legal team to decide what their most cost effective next move is.
|
You can, but it will be on your dime; not Toyota's and who is to say the aftermarket pump is any better.
__________________
2015 2WD Toyota Tacoma Prerunner V6 SR5 1GR-FE 236HP VVT-i
2014 2WD Toyota 4Runner SR5 1GR-FE 254 HP Dual VVT-i
2006 Toyota Avalon 3.5l automatic 2GR-RE Dual VVT-i
1991 Mercedes-Benz 300-SEL M103
1975 Kawasaki 900 Z1-B
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
05-31-2020, 11:35 PM
|
#140
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 256
|
|
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 256
|
Which aftermarket fuel pump? Is there such a thing? And if there is, it’s probably a copy of the OE part and likely has the same defect. And what is that defect, by the way? None of us know. How can we or anyone else fix what’s wrong, if we don’t even know what it is?
In any case, I really think you are grossly exaggerating the risk. These types of recalls are very common these days, and are done out of an abundance of caution. There are lawyers and regulators somewhere imagining the worst case scenario. This recall is affecting cars at least as far back as 2013 - do you really think millions of Toyotas are going to have LPFP failures in the next couple of months? Even if your pump did go, you would be far more likely to just get stranded than have a catastrophic outcome.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-01-2020, 01:55 AM
|
#141
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,247
Real Name: Mark
|
|
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,247
Real Name: Mark
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob
...And what is that defect, by the way? None of us know...
|
If you start reading back at post 80 there are links by
@ cb1111
to more info on Toyota’s early failure analysis.
Fuel Pump Recall
One link describes the problem observed with the impellers from failed pumps. At the time of this report the investigators had not been able to duplicate the exact failure mode of test units. Maybe there are updated progress reports that someone could find. Toyota must understand the problem better and is tracking the installed parts better since they’ve narrowed it down to 14-15 model years. It would be good to see Toyota’s latest reports on this.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/202...0V012-4705.pdf
Here’s an excerpt:
“ Description of Problem:
The subject vehicles are equipped with a low-pressure fuel pump, located in the fuel tank, that supplies fuel pressure to the fuel injection system. These fuel pumps contain an impeller that could deform due to excessive fuel absorption. Although the cause is unknown, if impeller deformation occurs, the impeller may interfere with the fuel pump body, and this could result in illumination of check engine and master warning indicators, rough engine running, engine no start and/or vehicle stall while driving at low speed. However, in rare instances, vehicle stall could occur while driving at higher speeds, increasing the risk of a crash.”
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-01-2020, 02:24 AM
|
#142
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 629
|
|
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 629
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by thennen
While most of what you say may be true, ElectroBoy is still correct in his response to someone saying they need to get this handled themselves. You can't fulfill the conditions of a recall outside of the stated recall parameters. You can replace parts, but you can't satisfy the conditions of the recall. You may even provide yourself a false sense of security by unknowingly swapping in a defective fuel pump.
I do disagree with this, though: "A dangerous airbag can be avoided by driving with extra caution". Ever been in an accident that wasn't your fault? Did you attempt to avoid it? And the curious thing - out of about 63 million recalls, only 8+ million airbags have been replaced, and that recall was issued in 2016. I imagine the majority of that is just negligence on the part of the owners.
|
Yea, odd way of putting it "avoided with extra caution".
__________________
2015 Trail Premium w/KDSS, nautical blue, tinted windows, factory running boards, Cooper Discoverer AT3 4S stock size.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-01-2020, 01:49 PM
|
#143
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 256
|
|
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 256
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectroBoy
“These fuel pumps contain an impeller that could deform due to excessive fuel absorption. Although the cause is unknown, if impeller deformation occurs, the impeller may interfere with the fuel pump body...
|
This is my point. Anyone can make a reasonable guess as to what is going on, but the fact is that Toyota has not publicly acknowledged the precise nature of the defect (and probably never will). Presumably, they are making changes to the part and testing before rolling out to the millions of customers affected. Given that this is part of the fueling system, it's not unreasonable to think that there might even be associated software changes required as a result of any hardware change. All of this to say that there is no path to an assured fix short of just waiting for Toyota to do it, on their timeline. Anyone who is concerned enough that they fear driving their vehicle in the meantime might consider asking their dealer to cover a rental car. I'm sure they won't volunteer to do so, but I heard of it happening with owners affected by the Takata airbag recall.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-01-2020, 02:23 PM
|
#144
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 9
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 9
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob
Which aftermarket fuel pump? Is there such a thing? And if there is, it’s probably a copy of the OE part and likely has the same defect. And what is that defect, by the way? None of us know. How can we or anyone else fix what’s wrong, if we don’t even know what it is?
In any case, I really think you are grossly exaggerating the risk. These types of recalls are very common these days, and are done out of an abundance of caution. There are lawyers and regulators somewhere imagining the worst case scenario. This recall is affecting cars at least as far back as 2013 - do you really think millions of Toyotas are going to have LPFP failures in the next couple of months? Even if your pump did go, you would be far more likely to just get stranded than have a catastrophic outcome.
|
All fair statements, as with me I am not worried. I once had my entire set (yes, all 4) brakes fall off of my vehicle while driving at 70MPH, everything ended up fine, I just don't know if my wife will panic with the kids in the car if the engine stalls, hell even at 10mph. Ha! Hence my concern, but I get it. ;)
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-01-2020, 02:30 PM
|
#145
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,596
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,596
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskewsy
All fair statements, as with me I am not worried. I once had my entire set (yes, all 4) brakes fall off of my vehicle while driving at 70MPH, everything ended up fine, I just don't know if my wife will panic with the kids in the car if the engine stalls, hell even at 10mph. Ha! Hence my concern, but I get it. ;)
|
You need to tell that brake story some day - yow!
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-01-2020, 02:36 PM
|
#146
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,596
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,596
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob
This is my point. Anyone can make a reasonable guess as to what is going on, but the fact is that Toyota has not publicly acknowledged the precise nature of the defect (and probably never will). Presumably, they are making changes to the part and testing before rolling out to the millions of customers affected. Given that this is part of the fueling system, it's not unreasonable to think that there might even be associated software changes required as a result of any hardware change. All of this to say that there is no path to an assured fix short of just waiting for Toyota to do it, on their timeline. Anyone who is concerned enough that they fear driving their vehicle in the meantime might consider asking their dealer to cover a rental car. I'm sure they won't volunteer to do so, but I heard of it happening with owners affected by the Takata airbag recall.
|
Agreed. I think it's Denso who made the pump, and they have a decades-long relationship with Toyota. I can imagine Toyota is leaning on them pretty hard right now - Denso has a lot to lose, and other suppliers would love that contract. Once a resolution is arrived at, I'm sure they'll simulate millions of miles of testing before releasing a fix. There must be thousands of process items to address with even the most minor recalls.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-01-2020, 04:36 PM
|
#147
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 48
|
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 48
|
My 2004 4Runner airbag light came on about a year prior to the airbag recall which cost me close to $1000 to get it fixed. When the recall came out, I contacted Toyota about the work I had done to fix the problem which turned out was same part being replaced by the recall, though I don’t know for sure was the same problem. Toyota did reimburse me the total amount paid. It cost me a bit of time and effort to prove to Toyota what was done, but it worked out in the end. In my case the repair work was performed at a Toyota dealership and I don’t know if it hadn’t been what additional hurdles I would have had to jump through or if I would have been reimbursed.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-01-2020, 05:52 PM
|
#148
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,596
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,596
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Photogr
My 2004 4Runner airbag light came on about a year prior to the airbag recall which cost me close to $1000 to get it fixed. When the recall came out, I contacted Toyota about the work I had done to fix the problem which turned out was same part being replaced by the recall, though I don’t know for sure was the same problem. Toyota did reimburse me the total amount paid. It cost me a bit of time and effort to prove to Toyota what was done, but it worked out in the end. In my case the repair work was performed at a Toyota dealership and I don’t know if it hadn’t been what additional hurdles I would have had to jump through or if I would have been reimbursed.
|
That's good to hear. I can imagine that any automaker needs to be diligent about weeding out fake claims when it comes to recalls. In you case, having had the repair done at the dealership likely placed the burden back onto Toyota. Good for you.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-01-2020, 11:56 PM
|
#149
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: NorCal
Posts: 51
|
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: NorCal
Posts: 51
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob
Which aftermarket fuel pump? Is there such a thing? ...
|
They have very nice aftermarket fuel pumps. They call them "racing" because they are capable of higher fuel flow. The turbocharger crowd likes these things.
URD 2010+ Toyota 4Runner Fuel Pump/Filter Upgrade Kit - Underdog Racing Development
If you read the whole page carefully along with the links to the various model pumps you can select, it's quite interesting.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-10-2020, 01:44 PM
|
#150
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Denver
Posts: 285
|
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Denver
Posts: 285
|
Quick Update after getting in touch with Toyota's Recall Phone Line, It took me three calls over three days to get through and Im paraphrasing here:
Toyota placed a large order for the faulty pumps at the onset of the recall process. The factories producing them were closed early on during the pandemic which is why we are seeing delays in the pump arrivals / remedy timing.
No information besides the remedy date was available to set 2015's apart from the rest according to the tech's e-mails. He appeared highly competent and put me on hold for about 5 min to read through the updates he received on his end.
The tech also mentioned to check back in about 30 days for another update and offered a loaner vehicle through Toyota if I felt the need. (Im working from home and hardly driving so I declined)
Not the most useful update but thought I would share anyways for those concerned.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Rate This Thread |
Linear Mode
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
|