10-13-2020, 03:41 PM
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#226
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Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: bay area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyKevin
Looks like their was a falling out with the designer and the company. The designer is no longer with the company (blackgate)
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so there was a falling out between the guy that designed the parts and the guy that brought it to market?
looks like potentially a net loss for the T4R community
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10-13-2020, 04:29 PM
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#227
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usdmej
so there was a falling out between the guy that designed the parts and the guy that brought it to market?
looks like potentially a net loss for the T4R community
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he's still designing stuff for KDSS folks. My guess is he's gonna work with Thuren Fab to bring products to market..
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2016 TE : Grocery Getter, 34/10.5R17 Toyo at3, Prinsu Rack, King Coilovers, DuroBumps, ToyTec HD 2.0 springs, King shocks, King hydro bumps, Total Chaos mounts, DirtKing Fabrication UCA, VIVID RACING Tune, URD Y pipe, RCI skids, Marlin Crawler gussets, DRKDSS everything
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10-19-2020, 05:43 PM
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#228
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Hey guys. I’m the guy who left blackgate. Well technically I was terminated. But that was after a buy out option that I didn’t agree with. Basically I couldnt make stuff for kdss let a long offroad market. So that was a no go for me. And when I told him I didn’t agree, well he said I was terminated and I lost my shares and ideas to the company.
I was brought on to blackgate to make things happen. Like literally come up with the parts and get them to production after testing etc. my partner ( other owner ) was suppose to do everything else included the customer service. But still I ended up doing the customer service because he didn’t know how to properly answer them. I gave the answer and basically how to answer most questions. But there was things that came up that he couldn’t answer so ppl still reached out to me. He took offense to that as if I was doing his job. Technically I was. I didn’t mind though. I enjoyed it.
Another issue came up was that he said I’ve made a directional change into the company and where we were going. Originally was brought on to make parts for the ranger and other platforms. I bought the 4r for myself. When I discovered the issue with the contact. It was something that I needed to address to make my 4r work the way I know I can. I searched and search and all I found was the Sonoran track bar. I hated it so my first attempt was to make a more traditional bent track bar to get around the contact points. While test fitting the track bar , light bulb went off in my head the blocks came to me. Of course now he’s sees the potential in the blocks, we decide to go full tilt on the blocks. I’m not saying that treaty offroad didn’t work on or do this first. I just know it wasn’t public space for me to find it. I don’t face book. I searched and searched. It is very possible for one to come up with an idea that one may have already came up with. I promise I never seen it anywhere and I thought it was the first. So if there actual pics of the spacers in a public space that was done before me then by all means he did it first. If not , he still prob did it first but I created that in my head. We must think alike. Anyway right before leading up to me leaving , he started down playing the blocks as if they were the reason blackgate had / had a name up to this point. I mean it’s the only production part we have with the kdss set to drop. So if you need kdss drop blocks I’m gonna recommend the ones from treaty and not blackgate. For obvious reason haha.
About the kdss switch, I’m still in testing and am actually going to create another version of it where it happens inside the cab. That area out side is waaaaay to sensitive. Let’s just say there’s a high chance of potentially failure in that plug area once you take off the Oem connector. Let alone trying to use after market connector on the outside of the truck in a sensitive area. I didn’t happen to my truck , but some of my testers experienced issues.
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10-19-2020, 06:15 PM
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#229
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: San Diego
Posts: 303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dom42
About the kdss switch, I’m still in testing and am actually going to create another version of it where it happens inside the cab. That area out side is waaaaay to sensitive. Let’s just say there’s a high chance of potentially failure in that plug area once you take off the Oem connector. Let alone trying to use after market connector on the outside of the truck in a sensitive area. I didn’t happen to my truck , but some of my testers experienced issues.
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I was one of the first 10 orders for the KDSS spacers/drops and I love them, they work great, excellent design. Been following (you and BG) on insta since the start and refreshing the KDSS switch since you first mentioned it and looking forward to purchasing directly from you when it's ready. Thanks for the update.
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10-21-2020, 09:23 PM
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#230
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Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: CA
Posts: 351
Real Name: Nick
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Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: CA
Posts: 351
Real Name: Nick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dom42
Hey guys. I’m the guy who left blackgate. Well technically I was terminated. But that was after a buy out option that I didn’t agree with. Basically I couldnt make stuff for kdss let a long offroad market. So that was a no go for me. And when I told him I didn’t agree, well he said I was terminated and I lost my shares and ideas to the company.
I was brought on to blackgate to make things happen. Like literally come up with the parts and get them to production after testing etc. my partner ( other owner ) was suppose to do everything else included the customer service. But still I ended up doing the customer service because he didn’t know how to properly answer them. I gave the answer and basically how to answer most questions. But there was things that came up that he couldn’t answer so ppl still reached out to me. He took offense to that as if I was doing his job. Technically I was. I didn’t mind though. I enjoyed it.
Another issue came up was that he said I’ve made a directional change into the company and where we were going. Originally was brought on to make parts for the ranger and other platforms. I bought the 4r for myself. When I discovered the issue with the contact. It was something that I needed to address to make my 4r work the way I know I can. I searched and search and all I found was the Sonoran track bar. I hated it so my first attempt was to make a more traditional bent track bar to get around the contact points. While test fitting the track bar , light bulb went off in my head the blocks came to me. Of course now he’s sees the potential in the blocks, we decide to go full tilt on the blocks. I’m not saying that treaty offroad didn’t work on or do this first. I just know it wasn’t public space for me to find it. I don’t face book. I searched and searched. It is very possible for one to come up with an idea that one may have already came up with. I promise I never seen it anywhere and I thought it was the first. So if there actual pics of the spacers in a public space that was done before me then by all means he did it first. If not , he still prob did it first but I created that in my head. We must think alike. Anyway right before leading up to me leaving , he started down playing the blocks as if they were the reason blackgate had / had a name up to this point. I mean it’s the only production part we have with the kdss set to drop. So if you need kdss drop blocks I’m gonna recommend the ones from treaty and not blackgate. For obvious reason haha.
About the kdss switch, I’m still in testing and am actually going to create another version of it where it happens inside the cab. That area out side is waaaaay to sensitive. Let’s just say there’s a high chance of potentially failure in that plug area once you take off the Oem connector. Let alone trying to use after market connector on the outside of the truck in a sensitive area. I didn’t happen to my truck , but some of my testers experienced issues.
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I'm looking forward to seeing your stuff in action here and IG.
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10-25-2020, 07:26 PM
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#231
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Dallas, TX
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So is this a copyright infringement or did they buy the rights? I installed mine and same result, love them. Scroll down to see the KDSS spacer kit they offer.
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2017 Off-road Premium w KDSS, moon roof, sliding rear cargo deck,3" Toytech Boss lift, SPC upper control arms, Sonoran Steel High Articulation KDSS Trac/PanHard Bar, RCI sliders, RCI skid plates aluminum including gas tank, C4 Fab diff skid plate, SCS Ray 10 Wheels Matte Gray, 285/70R17 Hankook Dynapro AT2 RF11 E-load RWL, Cali Raised LED 3x2 fog-light pods, Lock'r Down EXxtreme console safe with electronic lock, Auto Heat Shield all windows, Raingler rear cargo net, Canvasback rear covers, LFD Off-Road cross bars aluminum, LFD Hybrid bumper, LFD wind fairing, LFD Hi-lift jack mounts, Goat Armor, Blackgate Custom KDSS spacers, Ironman 2.5 awning with quick release mounts, Ironman 12,000 lb synthetic line winch.
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10-26-2020, 11:45 AM
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#232
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 2,055
Real Name: Mike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mteolus
So is this a copyright infringement or did they buy the rights? I installed mine and same result, love them. Scroll down to see the KDSS spacer kit they offer.
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If you scroll back a page, it was talked about.
Maximize your KDSS + extended travel shocks
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Been in the offroad industry since 1998. Born & raised in Australia - currently in Jax Beach, FL. 2014 4runner Trail, 3/2" Dobinsons MRA Suspension, Shrockworks bumper and sliders, M8000 w/ Treaty Oak winch line, LFD Roof Rails, Dobinsons 2m Awning, RCI skids
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10-26-2020, 01:21 PM
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#233
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 5,019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mteolus
So is this a copyright infringement or did they buy the rights? I installed mine and same result, love them. Scroll down to see the KDSS spacer kit they offer.
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FWIW - copyright is for creative works - art, stories, fictional characters, etc. Trademark is for protecting the public so that they can identify the source of a good or service. Patent is for protecting inventors of technological developments. In this case a patent is what you'd want for the spacer. But I don't think there is any legally protectable intellectual property here. Other than the trademarks (the company logos). The idea of the spacers has been made public for a long time on here and other forums. You have a period of time after publication before you can't patent the idea anymore. That period has passed.
So I think anyone could probably freely replicate the spacers without much concern over infringing on a valid patent. Of course you could get sued. But if it were me - I wouldn't loose sleep over it. Just don't use someone else's trademark (logo) or pretend you're selling it as someone else.
No one has really produced them for sale in a meaningful way before this because it's a small market. I think it's great that someone did it. I think the biggest hurdle is probably just whether it's worth doing and the risk that you won't sell very many.
I'd have them cast because it'd be a lot cheaper to manufacture and they're not high precision parts. It's just a block of aluminum that needs to key into the upper bracket and fit the rubber bushing.
Here's a 5 minute drawing of how you might make it so you could sand cast it with minimal or no machining. Not to scale or anything. Just a very rough picture to describe how you could do the bolt pathway that could be cast with the least effort.
Last edited by Jetboy; 10-26-2020 at 02:18 PM.
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11-10-2020, 12:35 PM
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#234
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Join Date: Sep 2019
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So when I bought the 4runner I discovered on my own ( actually with another buddy ) on making these blocks. B4 I moved on I search everywhere. I could not find any at all. At the time I made the original post, i believe there was no info on these in the public space. I believe it was in private groups. That’s my understanding when I spoke with Kyle with treatyoak offroad. He knows he stuff. I spoke with him about his blocks and how I came about it. We both agreed that we came up with it on our own. Yes , he did it first. I just couldn’t find it when I discovered what to make.
Anyway , I totally recommend the blocks from treatyoak. I even have them on my 4runner. Why? I was so disgusted with what happen with me , I just couldn’t have it on my truck. Kyle hooked me up for sure. Obviously I won’t recommend the locks I invented for Blackgate for obvious reason.
As far as who owns the design/ patent ... Blackgate owns it now. And he even snuck in that he was an inventor. I could care less about the patent. My ex partner / owner really pushed hard for it and I know will try to go after Kyle if the patent does come back ( patent pending now ). Dude has some funds to back it but I wouldn’t be too worried. He’s about to feel the wrath from the community... slowly already happening.
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11-10-2020, 12:52 PM
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#235
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With all that said. I have a different version of this kdss fix for the rear in the works but it’s gonna be for the extreme guys wanting to go mid / long travel. And will reduce the spring rate a tad bit to open up the rear a little for high speed offroad. Combined with the kdss switch and some 12-14” stroke shocks. It’s boogie time in the dirt then sports car on the road. Kinda
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11-10-2020, 01:46 PM
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#236
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Crazy story, and yea sorry I meant trademark not copyright.
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2017 Off-road Premium w KDSS, moon roof, sliding rear cargo deck,3" Toytech Boss lift, SPC upper control arms, Sonoran Steel High Articulation KDSS Trac/PanHard Bar, RCI sliders, RCI skid plates aluminum including gas tank, C4 Fab diff skid plate, SCS Ray 10 Wheels Matte Gray, 285/70R17 Hankook Dynapro AT2 RF11 E-load RWL, Cali Raised LED 3x2 fog-light pods, Lock'r Down EXxtreme console safe with electronic lock, Auto Heat Shield all windows, Raingler rear cargo net, Canvasback rear covers, LFD Off-Road cross bars aluminum, LFD Hybrid bumper, LFD wind fairing, LFD Hi-lift jack mounts, Goat Armor, Blackgate Custom KDSS spacers, Ironman 2.5 awning with quick release mounts, Ironman 12,000 lb synthetic line winch.
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11-19-2020, 01:35 PM
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#237
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I’m waiting with baited breath for some good news about the production of your kit. I’ve been holding off doing my suspension on my newly purchased KDSS equipped rig.
Keep up the good work and can’t wait to see the outcome of your endeavor.
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11-19-2020, 03:23 PM
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#238
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dom42
With all that said. I have a different version of this kdss fix for the rear in the works but it’s gonna be for the extreme guys wanting to go mid / long travel. And will reduce the spring rate a tad bit to open up the rear a little for high speed offroad. Combined with the kdss switch and some 12-14” stroke shocks. It’s boogie time in the dirt then sports car on the road. Kinda
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This one is going to eliminate the stock spare tire location though right?
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- 2016 4Runner - WeatherTech Floor Liners - Key Fob Window Roll-down Mod - 35 PSI Tire Pressure - Gum Holder Delete - iOttie Phone Holder - RainX Windshield Mod - Stock Windshield Wipers (for now) - Radio Stations are 105.9, 106.7, 95.5, and 93.1 - Chrome Exhaust Tip - Really want a Gobi Ladder but I guess I'll just stand on the Tire because it's free and does the same thing - Some Old Coleman Ice Chest - A Gas Can I Found -
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11-19-2020, 05:48 PM
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#239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynameistory
This one is going to eliminate the stock spare tire location though right?
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Yea, that and the gas tank will be gone.
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2017 Off-road Premium w KDSS, moon roof, sliding rear cargo deck,3" Toytech Boss lift, SPC upper control arms, Sonoran Steel High Articulation KDSS Trac/PanHard Bar, RCI sliders, RCI skid plates aluminum including gas tank, C4 Fab diff skid plate, SCS Ray 10 Wheels Matte Gray, 285/70R17 Hankook Dynapro AT2 RF11 E-load RWL, Cali Raised LED 3x2 fog-light pods, Lock'r Down EXxtreme console safe with electronic lock, Auto Heat Shield all windows, Raingler rear cargo net, Canvasback rear covers, LFD Off-Road cross bars aluminum, LFD Hybrid bumper, LFD wind fairing, LFD Hi-lift jack mounts, Goat Armor, Blackgate Custom KDSS spacers, Ironman 2.5 awning with quick release mounts, Ironman 12,000 lb synthetic line winch.
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11-19-2020, 09:19 PM
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#240
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mteolus
Yea, that and the gas tank will be gone.
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Hmm an electric vehicle conversion huh? Interesting.
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-Tory
- 2016 4Runner - WeatherTech Floor Liners - Key Fob Window Roll-down Mod - 35 PSI Tire Pressure - Gum Holder Delete - iOttie Phone Holder - RainX Windshield Mod - Stock Windshield Wipers (for now) - Radio Stations are 105.9, 106.7, 95.5, and 93.1 - Chrome Exhaust Tip - Really want a Gobi Ladder but I guess I'll just stand on the Tire because it's free and does the same thing - Some Old Coleman Ice Chest - A Gas Can I Found -
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