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Old 01-25-2020, 12:42 PM #1
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Totally new and need advice

I値l preface this with I致e never owned a vehicle that I致e done any modifications to

I got my financials figured out , and I知 going to either buy a 2020 Off Road or Pro.. but I want to do every upgrade I can to it. I知 totally content in the fact that I値l be some new idiot with way too much machine and no idea what to do with it.. but I want something I知 going to have fun with. I値l figure out how to use it once I have it.. ha.

SO!

Just need opinions on whether the PRO is worth the extra money if I壇 be upgrading the suspension/tires anyway.. (or I guess if I even need to)

Also opinions on what I should start upgrading first, and what I should get. I want to find some crazy trails and terrain, so I want to push this thing hard. Eventually I知 looking at skid plates, lights everywhere, new front end/winch, roof rack, etc..

I知 in the Inland Empire in California, so if anyone has recommendations for a shop to help me install stuff, or a place around here to purchase stuff.

Any and all advice welcome. Again, I have no idea what I知 doing.. but I知 hoping to buy the vehicle asap and start getting the build going. And if there痴 any groups in SoCal that would show me around once I get it.

Thanks!
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Old 01-25-2020, 01:11 PM #2
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Welcome to the forum... and good luck. You are going to catch a sickness that a lot of us here have. Its the Mod Bug. In my opinion, I would go with the TRD OR. If you plan on upgrading suspension... you can easily add the grill garnish to achieve the "Pro" look. You can stretch your money a lot farther by starting out with the Off Road model.
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Old 01-25-2020, 01:14 PM #3
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I'd go with the Pro if you plan to go off-road?
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Old 01-25-2020, 01:25 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Welcome to the forum... and good luck. You are going to catch a sickness that a lot of us here have. Its the Mod Bug. In my opinion, I would go with the TRD OR. If you plan on upgrading suspension... you can easily add the grill garnish to achieve the "Pro" look. You can stretch your money a lot farther by starting out with the Off Road model.
I知 not even worried about the pro look.. I just want something that will be super fun.. haha. Is the stock Fox suspension in the Pro any good? If it痴 decent, then I could hold off on upgrading it for a while
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Old 01-25-2020, 01:26 PM #5
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I'd go with the Pro if you plan to go off-road?
Definitely going off road. This will be a 3rd vehicle.. so It痴 going to be 100% for adventures
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Old 01-25-2020, 01:52 PM #6
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Since you really wanna use her off road I would go with the ORP, sure the suspension on the pro is more off road worthy but when you put the 10k that the pro cost more then the ORP into suspension and and tire/wheel combo you got something really nice!
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Old 01-25-2020, 01:53 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radog View Post
Definitely going off road. This will be a 3rd vehicle.. so It’s going to be 100% for adventures
You will hear all sorts of opinions, of course.

The reality is that there is only ONE difference between a Pro and Off-Road and that difference is the suspension. Therefore, the ONLY functional reason to buy a Pro is the suspension. If you are going to throw it away, you are throwing away 1000s of dollars. Not everyone cares for the bottom line though so there is that.

So, how good is the Fox suspension? I have not driven it so I cannot tell. I can tell you that the stock suspension can handle anything the Fox suspension will BUT you will not enjoy it nearly as much. The stock Pro will net you zero trails over a stock OffRoad but you will have 1/easier time both in desert and in rock and 2/ a much more comfortable ride both in desert and over rocks.

The same effect can be accomplished by upgrading an OffRoad for a fraction of the money the Fox suspension costs.

Which brings the question just how good the stock Fox suspension is. While I have no answer, I can tell you that the stock Raptor Fox suspension is regarded as a gimmicky suspension in that while it performs great over a short time period, it does not allow for sustained high speeds.

And so, it comes to what you want:

Tier 1:
--Go very fast through the desert for extended periods of time (King, aftermarket Fox, Icon, Radflo all 2.5 coilovers and rears).
--Maximum possible performance (see above).
--You can bet your lunch that most people here that have Kings and 9/10 of Instagramers have never needed more than Tier 2.
--All these suspensions will require rebuilding and that's either work that you have to do or a cost you will need to incur. May not be too bad in LA due to abundant support locally.

Tier 2, which is me among many others here:
--Go at good speed through the desert for a long time and crawl over biggish but not huge rocks.
--Have good road manners
--Have a much lower cost setup than Tier 1.
This is where your stock Pro setups come in. Functionally, you will get the same from a cheaper setup like mine (1,000$ for Bilstein 6112 and Icon rear) or get other mid-range setups, some of which are adjustable like the new Dobinsons MRA (2,000+). Is the Fox OEM better than Dobinsons MRA in real life use? It is OEM so there is that. You can count on dealer support.

Tier 3, which is most people and is perfectly fine functionally:
--Quality aftermarket suspension such as Eibach or Dobinsons
--Allows the same 4x4 trail experience as any of the above but you will be more limited in the desert in terms of speed and maybe comfort (though I think Eibach may be very good at comfort due to the valving). These suspensions are capable yet very cost effective at the same time. Not having to rebuild them cuts dramatically on effort and cost. You will save money by rebuilding suspensions in the upper tiers only if you do all the work yourself and only if you keep the vehicle for a very long time. Otherwise, it is hard to argue with 100-140$ per new shock.

Tier 3 old school:
--Same as Tier 3 but using older design suspension, such as 5100s and OME nitro shocks. These are functionally equivalent to Tier 3 but will ride rougher per everything I have read. That said, I don't thing 5100s are rough but I have only driven those on X-Terras, not 4Runners.

Tier 4, Spacers.
Don't. It is less capable than stock. You will get the illusion of capability via an artificial ride height but if you are serious about offroading spacers are a bad idea. I have run spacers with no issues on a Subaru for years so I am not inherently biased against spacers or ignorant about them. On a 4R, they are a bad idea unless they are small and used to compensate for lean or add a tiny bit of lift.

Finally, these are the things you actually need to be comfortably doing lots of offroading:

--A more capable suspension than stock that preserves your wheel travel or only takes away very little
--This means 2" of lift or less + 6112 front or equivalent and 5160/Icon/Fox/Radflo rear. You don't need "extended travel" you just need the little extra a good front suspension affords WITHOUT aftermarket UCAs (yes, it is so but you will hear many saying it is impossible).

If you want to drive the Rubicon all the time or Golden Spike and up then, by all means, go all the way to 3" lift and add aftermarket bumpers. But if you stay Hells Revenge/Fins and Things/Elephant Hill and lower, you do not technically need any lift at all, you would just want a better suspension for better experience and better skid plates for better protection.

So that's the strategic decision to make:

Good speeds+difficult trails=one story, easy to get there comfortably, and cheap, too. Arguably the 4R is the best all-around platform for this.

High speeds (sustained)+very difficult trails=another story and you don't have the best platform for either to start with. You can do all sorts of things with enough desire, but will never turn the 4R into a Rubicon or a Pre-Runner so bear that in mind before starting. There is a fantastic thread by LawnDart on the latter subject: you can see what it takes to compete with Raptors.
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Old 01-25-2020, 02:26 PM #8
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Save money. Get the orp and then add a lift (if you decide you need it) and better (and larger) tires.

Get the pro if you want the cosmetics. But in reality you will probably replace the suspension to handle more weight of add ons and gain clearance for 285s eventually.




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Old 01-25-2020, 02:34 PM #9
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First priorities to me are tires suitable for intended use and armor. Skids and sliders.
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Old 01-25-2020, 02:35 PM #10
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If you are going to upgrade the suspension, don't get the pro since you are paying thousands for the Fox setup you will will be taking off. Go Off Road Premium non KDSS. You can upgrade to the TRD wheels and skid plate for pretty cheap if you want them.
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Old 01-25-2020, 07:03 PM #11
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I just got a 2020 OR. I agree you don稚 need the Pro unless you have money to blow. I知 installing the Eibach kit, wheels and tires this coming weekend. I知 in the IE too. Looking to check out some trails in a couple weeks.


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Old 01-25-2020, 08:08 PM #12
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IMO -- Get the OR, add skid plates and sliders then run it on trails to see what you really need. Make mods after you see how well the T4 does to help decide what is needed for your type of running.

I really like my old 2013 Trail and have taken it on some very rough trails and deep sand dunes. But from what you say you want, maybe a JL with 35s, lockers and winch may be better for your intended use.

I never would have recommended a Jeep until I make a snow run with a group of built JKs. They were impressive.
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Old 01-25-2020, 08:13 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radog View Post
If there’s any groups in SoCal that would show me around once I get it.
Thanks!
Check the SoCal section on this forum. I came from SoCal and had some very good group trips, help and information from members of that group.
Photo on 2N16 near Green Valley Lake.
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Old 01-25-2020, 09:13 PM #14
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I went with a Pro for a few reasons. I wanted Army green, dual climate control, the pro grille/skid. The minor appearance things like the trd wheels and black lugs are nice. The fox suspension rides really nice. Its a great vehicle from factory but it comes at an admittedly almost ridiculous price point. You can definitely get an off road premium and make it more off road worthy than a stock pro for much less $. I had a bone stock sr5 a few years back that i felt was a little lackluster. I also had a jeep jk that i spent a bunch of money modifying the suspension on. Personally the pro just felt right but only because I don稚 plan on changing the suspension in the near future. If you really plan on moding the suspension id say get the OR.


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Old 01-25-2020, 09:24 PM #15
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I致e had 3 5th gen trails (10,16,19) and currently have a 19 Pro.
I say save the $ and just get the orp. I got a really good deal on my pro or I壇 have stayed in my orp.
There are a few things the orp had that the pro does not and I cannot figure out why. Also, I hate the pro rack, it looks like shit and I am dumping it very soon.

Also, you can get a much better deal on a new orp than on a pro.
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