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Old 01-27-2020, 10:11 PM #16
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Originally Posted by Dynamo View Post
The 3rd brake light flasher is one of those things like pin stripes, window tint, and protection packages that some dealers will put on every vehicle they receive into inventory before it is sold.
TIL yet again Thanks for that!
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Old 01-27-2020, 10:12 PM #17
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OP- where did you buy your 2019?
Where I am the Southeast Toyota Distributor sticks all sorts of crap on and charges big time for it.
For example mine came with 2 Iphone charging cords, USB C cord and a cig lighter USB charger for $73. I don't have an Iphone.
All in all they stuck $3500 worth of mostly crap on it, I would have declined if I could.
I bought it in St Louis and it was transferred from Illinois. Nothing on the sticker indicating any addons, but I totally believe you guys.
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Old 01-27-2020, 10:13 PM #18
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Originally Posted by cb1111 View Post
Thank you for reading my post in the way it was intended.

The OP believed that his new car had a hidden feature. Now he knows that the feature no only isn't stock, but may also cause him to get a ticket or fail inspection (if his state requires inspections).

What he (and anyone else) does with that information is up to him (them).
appreciate the info, firmly in the it ain't a crime if you don't get caught camp ;)
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Old 01-27-2020, 11:00 PM #19
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At a couple of shops I worked at the Jeep dealer would bring us a new vehicle for us to bling out with every chrome or stainless steel accessory available.
Kinda fun drilling holes in a Jeep with mileage in the double digits.

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Old 01-27-2020, 11:18 PM #20
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Originally Posted by scratchhax View Post
TIL yet again Thanks for that!
Did you figure out the brake shift interlock? Does it actually shift out of park without pressing on the brake?
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Old 01-27-2020, 11:33 PM #21
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Originally Posted by scratchhax View Post
I bought it in St Louis and it was transferred from Illinois. Nothing on the sticker indicating any addons, but I totally believe you guys.
Must have been Jay Wolfe Toyota. That's where I bought mine and they had the brake light sitting on the counter so you could hit the button and be amazed. If I'm remembering correctly either the literature or the sales guy claimed it was going to be government mandated in a few years. This was 2017. Sounds like it's not gov friendly. Knowledge is power folks.
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Old 01-27-2020, 11:45 PM #22
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Originally Posted by Dynamo View Post
Did you figure out the brake shift interlock? Does it actually shift out of park without pressing on the brake?
I hope not, because that would be a violation of FMVSS 114 which requires:

S5.3 Brake transmission shift interlock. Each motor vehicle manufactured on or after September 1, 2010 with a GVWR of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) or less with an automatic transmission that includes a “park” position shall be equipped with a system that requires the service brake to be depressed before the transmission can be shifted out of “park.” This system shall function in any starting system key position in which the transmission can be shifted out of “park.” This section does not apply to trailers or motorcycles.
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Old 01-28-2020, 11:36 AM #23
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Originally Posted by Dynamo View Post
Did you figure out the brake shift interlock? Does it actually shift out of park without pressing on the brake?
It does after I have shifted it out of park for the first time, so it goes into the shop on the 6th as that seems.....off.
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Old 01-28-2020, 12:45 PM #24
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Originally Posted by scratchhax View Post
It does after I have shifted it out of park for the first time, so it goes into the shop on the 6th as that seems.....off.
That is "off". Your brake interlock is broken. Should be an easy fix normally, but may be related to that brake flasher they installed.

You need to get this sorted as it is dangerous.
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Old 01-28-2020, 01:51 PM #25
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The FMVSS governs the sale and manufacture of vehicles in the United States. However, what is legal to own and operate is governed by your particular state's vehicle code. Blinking third brake lights are legal to operate in many states. What is typically restricted is the rate and total number of times the light may blink. As an example my state's vehicle code reads:

25251.5(c)
Any stoplamp or supplemental stoplamp required or permitted by Section 24603 may be equipped so as to flash not more than four times within the first four seconds after actuation by application of the brakes.

So basically the dealership can't legally sell it pre-installed, but they can sell you the mod and install it after the sale if it's legal to use in your area.
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Old 01-28-2020, 03:11 PM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space King View Post
The FMVSS governs the sale and manufacture of vehicles in the United States. However, what is legal to own and operate is governed by your particular state's vehicle code. Blinking third brake lights are legal to operate in many states. What is typically restricted is the rate and total number of times the light may blink. As an example my state's vehicle code reads:

25251.5(c)
Any stoplamp or supplemental stoplamp required or permitted by Section 24603 may be equipped so as to flash not more than four times within the first four seconds after actuation by application of the brakes.

So basically the dealership can't legally sell it pre-installed, but they can sell you the mod and install it after the sale if it's legal to use in your area.

Aargh! I notice a lot of new model Hyundai's with this feature in my area. Was once behind a group of four ricey sport compacts, diving like fools. They all had the blink-blink-blink-blink lights. So annoying! Good thing I am not sensitive to strobe lights.
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Old 01-28-2020, 10:18 PM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space King View Post
The FMVSS governs the sale and manufacture of vehicles in the United States. However, what is legal to own and operate is governed by your particular state's vehicle code. Blinking third brake lights are legal to operate in many states. What is typically restricted is the rate and total number of times the light may blink. As an example my state's vehicle code reads:

25251.5(c)
Any stoplamp or supplemental stoplamp required or permitted by Section 24603 may be equipped so as to flash not more than four times within the first four seconds after actuation by application of the brakes.

So basically the dealership can't legally sell it pre-installed, but they can sell you the mod and install it after the sale if it's legal to use in your area.
Come to think of it, some emergency vehicles have something similar around STL. Can't remember if it's ambulances or fire trucks.
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Old 01-28-2020, 11:45 PM #28
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Come to think of it, some emergency vehicles have something similar around STL. Can't remember if it's ambulances or fire trucks.
Almost all the emergency vehicles in MA have it and pretty sure several other states around. I always see Hondas with the flashing brake lights added. Never heard of anyone getting pulled over for it but I'm sure they're out there.
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Old 01-29-2020, 12:00 AM #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space King View Post
The FMVSS governs the sale and manufacture of vehicles in the United States. However, what is legal to own and operate is governed by your particular state's vehicle code. Blinking third brake lights are legal to operate in many states. What is typically restricted is the rate and total number of times the light may blink. As an example my state's vehicle code reads:

25251.5(c)
Any stoplamp or supplemental stoplamp required or permitted by Section 24603 may be equipped so as to flash not more than four times within the first four seconds after actuation by application of the brakes.

So basically the dealership can't legally sell it pre-installed, but they can sell you the mod and install it after the sale if it's legal to use in your area.
Gotta love Kalifornia. That regulation is actually a violation. See my bolding below

From the CATO institute:

Can a state impede federal authorities from enforcing their own law if the state deems the law to be unconstitutional? The answer is “No,” although more radical nullification proponents would disagree. They point to the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions of 1798 and 1799, in which Thomas Jefferson and James Madison asserted a state’s right to nullify the Alien and Sedition Acts.

But consider those resolutions in context: Jefferson and Madison had argued that the states must have the final word because the Constitution had not expressly established an ultimate authority on constitutional matters.

Four years later in Marbury v. Madison, Chief Justice John Marshall resolved that oversight. He wrote: “It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is.” Since then, instead of 50 individual states effecting their own views regarding constitutionality, we have one Supreme Court establishing a uniform rule for the entire nation.

The Framers concurred. In Federalist 78, Alexander Hamilton had written: “\ limited constitution … can be preserved in practice no other way than through the medium of courts of justice, whose duty it must be to declare all acts contrary to the manifest tenor of the constitution void.” Madison shared that view. He wrote: “(I)ndependent tribunals … will be an impenetrable bulwark against every assumption of power in the legislative or executive.”

Even before Marbury, the Virginia General Assembly had passed Madison’s Report of 1800. It acknowledged that states can declare federal laws unconstitutional; but the declaration would have no legal effect unless the courts agreed. Here’s what Madison wrote: State “declarations … are expressions of opinion, (intended only for) exciting reflection. The expositions of the judiciary, on the other hand, are carried into immediate effect.”

Madison also published Notes on Nullification in 1834. There, he wrote that an individual state cannot unilaterally invalidate a federal law. That process requires collective action by the states. Similarly, Jefferson’s Kentucky Resolutions had described nullification as an act by “the several states” that formed the Constitution.

____________________________________________

While no state can create a regulation that overrides a federal regulation, they can decide not to inspect for, or enforce, a certain regulation.

Accordingly, a state can say "we don't care about third brake lights so we won't see if they are working during inspection" but they can't legally say "the brake light can flash"

This actually makes sense. If a state would create a law (a flashing brake light for example) then a California driver could get ticketed while driving in a state that enforces the FMVSS.

California is, in this case, violating the law.
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Old 01-29-2020, 12:09 AM #30
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Gotta love Kalifornia.

*** long-winded yammering redacted***

California is, in this case, violating the law.
I don't care where you get help... but please get help somewhere.
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