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Old 02-10-2020, 12:53 PM #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tflux View Post
Ah yes. Can you Limited people confirm/deny this?
I can only confirm this from a 4th gen perspective. You can turn off the traction control but not the stability control. Curious if it's the same for the 5th gens.


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My wife's cousin had an SR5. They were in 2wd hit some black ice on the interstate (going ~50mph) and had a horrible crash. She said she had zero time to react and the truck was "instantly sideways." The truck hit the median, rolled twice, and landed on the road with cars coming at them. They were ok, just bumps and bruises, but the 4runner was totaled. VERY scary.

That got me thinking, what if she was in a limited with full-time 4wd? I realize it is impossible to know the answer, but I bet she would have been better off in the limited. Maybe she wouldn't have slipped at all.

I know the limited is more expensive, (and trust me, i definitely don't want to spend more money on a vehicle) but if the limited could save a crash, OR A LIFE, then that extra couple thousand dollars is nothing.

Am I wrong?
Hard to play the what-if game, but I had a similar incident but thankfully at a slower speed limit.

In my SR5 the other week, I was approaching a red light on a road where the limit is 60kmph and was slowing down. Before I came to a stop, the light turned green so I accelerated like normal (not even spiritedly or aggressively) to get back up to the speed limit.

Right after the intersection, while I was accelerating, I hit black ice and it kicked the rear end out with no notice i.e. instant fubar. My rear squirreled out so fast, my car rotated about 30 degrees, caught traction, and shot over to the next lane. I was able to get things back under control, but if there was a car beside me, I would have had no control over that at all. Had I been travelling at highway speeds, I might be in your wife's cousin's position.

I've tracked my car before and used to race 600cc motorcycles on a semi-competitive (regional) level. I crashed lots for various reasons but mostly due to lack of traction under various conditions (too fast and ran out of traction, tires insufficiently warmed up, cold track, wet, worn tires, etc., etc) so I like to think I'm well-versed with most things traction. As such, I can recognize, react, and have some morsel of control in slippery situations.

This was a first for me where I had no control in regards to preventing that situation short of accelerating unreasonably slow all the time thereby resulting in everybody honking at me. The stability control didn't even kick in until I was in the next lane -that's how fast everything happened.

:edited to not perpetuate misinformation:
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Last edited by the_fornicator; 02-10-2020 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 02-10-2020, 03:59 PM #47
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From my 4th gen, I do know the Limiteds are generally in RWD. When it detects a loss of traction, that's when the AWD (it's not but I hesitate to call it 4x4) kicks. Not sure what event has to happen for the vehicle to switch back to RWD. But hard to say if the limited would have prevented the same scenario from happening. So, I would say the limiteds have real-time AWD and not full-time (implying all the time without switching to RWD ever) AWD/4x4 because it definitely does start out at RWD.


Not true at all. The Limited is always AWD.
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Old 02-10-2020, 04:10 PM #48
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Have SR5, thinking about Limited. Thoughts?

Limited is 50/50 power distribution to front and rear tires when in H4F. Full time 4-wheel drive!


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Old 02-10-2020, 04:45 PM #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03_4x4Runner View Post
Not true at all. The Limited is always AWD.
Derp. I guess I should have googled it.

Odd, I've taken icy turns before with the intention of drifting around the corner and I've over-done it to the point where I spun out but with the same ease as my RWD vehicles. I've always found it super easy to throw the rear end out so figured it was RWD until traction control told it otherwise. I've taken the same turns in 4hi with my SR5 and the SR5 drifted as expected.

Very odd. Maybe user error.
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Old 02-10-2020, 05:03 PM #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tflux View Post
Ah yes. Can you Limited people confirm/deny this?

I like being able to turn everything off, during a snowstorm, in an open parking lot, ok yes, i like donuts okay! You can turn everything off in the SR5 and slip around

If you want to do donuts in an outback, you have to pull the ABS fuse. Not convienient.
Yes you can turn off VSC & TRAC systems with VSC button. Press and release for TRAC and press and hold 3 seconds for VSC. Will allow wheel spin in slippery conditions like snow, sand, etc. But remember always AWD or 4WD no matter what.
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Old 02-10-2020, 09:19 PM #51
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The Limited is a real 4WD system, NOT AWD.

From Toyota:

Exclusive to the 4Runner Limited, the full-time 4WD system uses a Torsen® center differential with locking feature and a three-mode, center console-mounted switch. The system uses a 40:60 torque split in most driving situations and alters that in response to slippage. If the front wheels are slipping while the vehicle is turning, the Torsen® differential changes the split to 30:70. If the rear wheels slip while the vehicle is turning, the differential changes to a 53:47 split.
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Old 02-10-2020, 09:43 PM #52
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That’s just Toyota marketing language. AWD is where you have varying torque to front and rear. 4WD is where you have locked non varying equal 50/50 torque to both front and rear. H4F and H4L respectively in Limited.
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:04 PM #53
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We may just be nitpicking here but traditionally AWD didn’t have locking diffs. Although recently electronics have muddied the definitions.
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Old 02-11-2020, 12:45 AM #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd2 View Post
We may just be nitpicking here but traditionally AWD didn’t have locking diffs. Although recently electronics have muddied the definitions.
Traditionally AWDs don't have a low range.

The 4Runner Limited isn't a AWD, its a 4WD with a proper low range TC.

It uses a Torsen transfer case. Its a mechanical limited slip solution which can operate locked (4WD aka H4L), or unlocked (AWD aka H4F).

No electronics or clutches... it's a pretty legit solution. Used in GX, Land Cruiser, older gen 4Runners. You don't miss a thing off-road either, it works as it should.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:32 AM #55
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We may just be nitpicking here but traditionally AWD didn’t have locking diffs. Although recently electronics have muddied the definitions.
Agreed.
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Old 02-22-2020, 12:21 PM #56
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Did it! Thanks for all the replies and insight/advice. LOVE the Limited!

Love the leather (ventilated and heated).
Love the key (no need to take it out of your pocket).
Love the full-time 4wd.
Love memory seats.

Don't really like 20" rims (changeable).
Sunroof cuts into headroom a little.
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Old 02-23-2020, 09:04 AM #57
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Torque split of T-3 used in Limted.

Torsen - Wikipedia

“As of 2008, there are three types of Torsen differentials.

The original Torsen T-1 (Type A) uses crossed axis helical gears to limit torque split. The Type I can be designed for higher torque bias ratios than the Type II, but typically has higher backlash and the potential for Noise, Vibration, and Harshness (NVH) issues, and requires a precise setup/installation.
The later Torsen T-2 (Type B) uses a parallel gear arrangement to achieve a similar effect. There is also a specialist application of the T-2, known as the T-2R (RaceMaster).
The latest Torsen T-3 (Type C) is a planetary type differential, in that the nominal torque split is not 50:50. The Type C is available as single or twin version; the Torsen twin C differential has front and center differential in the same unit.
The Torsen T-3 is currently employed as the center differential in all non-Haldex Traction Audi models with a ZF-sourced automatic transmission Quattro four-wheel drive, such as: Audi A6, Audi A7, and Audi Q7. Audi uses a mechanical "Crown Wheel" center differential for all longitudinal implementations using dual-clutch transmissions, such as the 2013/14 S4/RS4. Alfa Romeo used a Torsen C twin differential in the Alfa Romeo 156 Crosswagon Q4 and also in the 159, Alfa Romeo Brera and Spider Q4 models. Also, Toyota uses a Torsen T-3 in the center differential of the 4Runner Limited, FJ Cruiser 6-speed manual, Land Cruiser and Lexus GX470, with manual locking feature, and General Motors used a Torsen T-3 center differential in the transfer case of the Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS and Saab 9-7X (Aero model only).

Behaviour of Torsen differentials[edit]
The Torsen differential works just like a conventional differential, but can lock up if a torque imbalance occurs, the maximum ratio of torque imbalance being defined by the Torque Bias Ratio (TBR).[2] When a Torsen has a 3:1 TBR, that means that one side of the differential can handle up to 75% while the other side would have to only handle 25% of applied torque. During acceleration under asymmetric traction conditions, so long as the higher traction side can handle the higher percentage of applied torque, no relative wheelspin will occur. When the traction difference exceeds the TBR, the slower output side of the differential receives the tractive torque of the faster wheel multiplied by the TBR; any extra torque remaining from applied torque contributes to the angular acceleration of the faster output side of the differential.

The TBR should not be confused with the uneven torque-split feature in the planetary-type Torsen III. The planetary gearset allows a Torsen III center differential to distribute torque unevenly between front and rear axles during normal (full traction) operation without inducing wind-up in the drivetrain. This feature is independent of the Torque Bias Ratio.”
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