Is a V8 the best option though?

Turbo engines are not just a Japanese thing although they execute it well.

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Personally I'd like to see a V8tt option but that's unlikely. Going to guess that V6 Hybrid will be an option.

I have a Macan with a 2.0L Turbo 4. It is a great engine in a crossover and probably the last engine I want in an SUV.

I sold my 2014 LC with 60k for $42k. It was mint and barely off-roaded. I bought my 2020 ORP for just a grand more.

While the build quality in the LC was solid, it’s size and everyday drive ability for work and kids was just not enjoyable. And then on the trail I was constantly evaluating getting pinstripes constantly.

So I kept my 62series and sold the 200. My wife even commented the other day that the ORP is like a modern version of the 62. Body style, drive, basics, etc. and she’s right.

2020 ORP
‘14 200
‘07 100 + ‘90 62 (still have this)
‘98 100
‘83 60

Going through this progression of vehicles and sizing and overall vehicle manner...it really did come around full circle. It just dropped down one model.

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I have taken both off road and both do great. The LC is 2" wider than the 4R really an immaterial difference. I took my 11 LC off-roading a ton, and you can tell that the KDSS was built for the LC, tucked under the body (4runner kdss sticks out more on my friends OR) and performs well, and the power is amazing. It is a beast off-road. Just wish it cam stock with a bigger gas tank! Both are great rigs, but the LC is a leap above.

Glad I was able to pick up a 2019 without the extra safety radar of the 2020 models.

Just wanted an old technology car that was solid.

Easy to get in and out of.
4.0L port injected V6 tuned for 400,000 miles.
Lots of aftermarket gear.
Lots of on-line support.

Eh...It's a beautiful thing.

That doesn’t make much sense to me because the LC is so iconic and remains the gold standard around the world. especially in the ME, AU, Asia & Africa. That would be like BMW doing a 4 door sports sedan for Toyota.

I’m lucky in that the price of the LC is not an issue so I recently test drove one since the rumor I read was that they may get rid of it’s V8. Not much not to like but it was just too big for my needs. Other than a different body, engine, tech, etc. there is just no way that the new 300 will have a much shorter wheel base, solid fronts or much of what is being said here.

There will be a serious truck based off road capable next generation 200 (LC) and 150 (Prada, 4R, GX, etc.). And the 300 will also be designed as a 250K mile vehicle – it just has to be. The only real question is the same old question of what we will see here in North America. 10 years ago I may have believed that they would just stop offering the 150 platform here in favor of the Highlander type SUV. But the explosion of sales to Beta Pro & Jeep owners tells me that there is just no way they will abandon that market.

The 8AR is among the newest engines in the Toyota stable and it's less than 30lbs lighter than the v6. The Mercedes 2.0 4cyl turbo is 354lb. The GM 2.7 turbo weighs 380lbs. As alternate choices the remaining driveline would be approximately equivalent. A turbo 4cyl is not meaningfully different in weight from a v6 in any current vehicle configuration I'm aware of. Maybe you could point to a turbo 4cyl in a production suv or truck that's less than 300lb? Any weight savings from the structural re-design would be the same whether a v6 or turbo 4cyl is chosen.

If you told me Toyota would sell a BMW re-skinned as a Supra - I'd have said that didn't make sense either. It would also surprise me, but after the Supra it's less of "they'd never" and more of "they probably shouldn't".

I've read a few interviews from Toyota execs who said a few things indicating that they did intend to discontinue the 4Runner and GX after the 5th gen, but sales are too good to drop them. The GX470 was intended originally as a 3-5 year run while Lexus developed a 3 row cross over slotted above the RX and it ended up selling so well that they kept it. Then the 4Runner was going to be phased out so they did a pretty minor update for the 5th gen with the idea of it running out the remaining life of the BOF architecture, but then sales took off again so it's back in the future plans. The LC200 is probably a net loser all around. If it wasn't for the historic significance I'm sure they'd have killed it off a long time ago.

One of the more recent discussions was about how the 4Runner and Highlander are very similar in size but have totally different markets. The Toyota exec said that they intend to bring a short wheel base off road oriented vehicle to north america. Specifically he said that the same comparable market exists with the Rav4 as the 4Runner is to the highlander. A body on frame, long travel suspension (his words), smaller size SUV. My guess is that the comment about the 5 seat Land Cruiser is meaning a return of something called an FJCruiser or similar not the real *Land Cruiser* which will be the LC300 and have 3 rows, etc. The re-birth of the FJ cruiser and elimination of the LC300 in north america would fit the statement of being significantly cheaper and a 5 seat model.

The BMW Z4 / Supra actually makes perfect sense to me that they shared development costs for such a none core product. That’s just the direction the automakers are going. I just got a new M340i and see that the same engine is going into the 2021 Supra which will make it interesting.

I find it impossible to believe that the LC200 is a financial loser for them so would be interested to hear what you based that on. I would think it was the exact opposite.

As I said, them considering to discontinue the 4Runner makes historical sense as does their decision to change their minds based on the sales explosion.

The FJ was a 4R made on the same production line but with an different outsourced body. I think they are still offering it for the Aussie market. Whatever shorter body replacement coming must be the next gen 150 (4R / FJ / GX / Prado) or it may be something completely different but it just can’t possibly be the new LC300.

Once again we are not taking about an engine swap. We are taking about a redesign going from a V6 to a 4T.

30 pounds is a significant number.

When Honda went to a 4T from a V6 they got 22 lbs out of the new trans and as much as 170lbs out total and its a FWD car. A 10 years old design RWD SUV like the 4R would have alot more low hanging fruit for weight reduction.

2018 Honda Accord Officially Revealed! | News | Car and Driver

The LC200 selling in very small volume is pretty hard to cover the development and production costs along with the lifecycle requirements to maintain all of the parts supply and such. Selling only around 3,000 per year is a pretty tough market. I don't have a good idea on what global total sales are. My guess would be 20k or so. There aren't a lot of models that survive with sales figures below 30k in the USA and even less with sub 5k sales. For example the FJ cruiser discontinued in the USA with around 14k annual USA sales. Honda discontinued the Ridgeline at around 30k, brought back, and again dropped quickly to 30k and I don't think that it'll see another generation. The Venza was discontinued selling 21k units in the USA.

The LC200 may have a higher profit margin than a Venza or FJ Cruiser - but I'm not sure how much. They sit a LONG time on dealer lots - meaning the dealer has to finance a $70k car for lots of days before selling. As a result they're often not willing to order any to have in the show room. Most Toyota dealers have zero on hand. The LC200 simply isn't a good product for north america. Dealers don't want to sell them. Few customers are buying them. I don't think another generation will exist unless it's significantly changed to sell at much higher volumes. 20 combined mpg is an absolute minimum requirement IMO to have any long term market success.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to like about the LC200. It's partially that our North America version is exceedingly heavy, inefficient, expensive, and overall pretty underwhelming. I'm a big Toyota fan, but even I would have a pretty hard time buying one new or at anywhere near retail price. There's just so many better vehicles out there for daily driver duty. I might buy a LX570 in the fairly near future for a family adventure vehicle. With Tundra front suspension and probably 35s or 37's I think it would be great as a weekend family exploring toy. But only because you can buy them for 20k now so chopping one up isn't such a big expense. If an LC300 drops in a year or two with 25+ mpg, I'd bet the LX570s with higher miles will be $15k. At that point - I probably can't say no.

Who said anything about an engine swap? What exactly do you think will change structurally between a turbo 4 and v6 in a body on frame SUV that is designed to fit probably 4 engines for the global market? Specifics! What parts will change and how?

Do you not realize that the same new transmission Honda used would also work with the v6? It's weight savings in a transmission that's agnostic to the engine in front of it. I assume Toyota will likely have weight savings from a variety of changes. The difference between a v6 and T4 is not one of them. This is particularly true in the case of a longitudinally mounted engine - 4cyl is taller, longer, and narrower and weighs the same. V6 is wider and shorter. Fitting in the engine bay is a non-issue and will have no meaningful difference in the frame design or body design.

The mistake you are making is considering the LC200 as a North American vehicle which it is absolutely not. They may stop selling here because of slow sales but the worldwide market is completely different and it still can't be possible they aren't making a good profit on them. Especially considering how long they have been making them without a major change.

But you got me interested so I did a quick search. They sell even more than I thought.....:

At present, the Land Cruiser is sold in approximately 170 countries and regions worldwide, with annual global sales standing at approximately 400,000 units.

Cumulative Global Sales of the Toyota Land Cruiser Series Surpass 10 Million Units | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

That number includes all of the prado sales and lc70. The 200 is much much less. I don't know the exact number. In that 400,000 unit count for example they consider all GX sales as "land cruiser" so the same press release shows 36,000 sales in north america. And we know that less than 10% of that were LC200's. If that ratio holds globally, it's something like 40,000 total. But it's probably less than that. We don't have the LC7x and sales have fallen off a cliff since that was published in 2018. 2019 only sold about 250,000 globally of all models. So maybe 25,000 LC200's plus or minus a few. Australia sells the most at around 13,000 per year. If the ME also sells that many and Africa sells 5k, maybe you could add up 40k globally prior to the drop off in the last year. Even at 50k, it's not a very good selling model.

Toyota already makes the Fortuner (aka Hilux SW4) for markets outside the US which is BOF and a little smaller than a 4Runner.