03-02-2020, 05:03 PM
|
#1
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
Posts: 57
|
|
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
Posts: 57
|
Who's had both? KDSS and Non KDSS.
Hello. I'm looking at picking up a 2020 in the near future. I'll first start by saying I have read all the KDSS/non KDSS threads I could find. The problem is many of the posts are opinions and not actual facts or experiences.
I am hoping to get some input from people that may have owned both and can give their actual pros and cons of their experiences.
I also have a few questions about KDSS in certain situations.
1. If I lift the truck with KDSS does it impede any function of the system? I know a lot of people do it but for me if it doesn't
2. I've driven both and the KDSS definetly feels tighter on road. But, haven't had a chance to stretch their legs on even extended test drives. Does the KDSS actually slow better articulation and a more planted ride? And, how is the feel on washboard roads? I will be doing a lot of that in my state.
3. The skid plate. I can see that the KDSS plate sticks more forward than the non. I've rad a lot of responses of people saying it's a problem. Problem is most I've seen don't even have the KDSS option. Wondering if try experiences of clearances and usage.
I have a 13' Tundra that will stay. The 4R will be my main driver and will keep it stock or mostly stock other than tires. I may go a 1 +|- inch lift, but will be keeping stock size tires. I will be using it extensively on F/S road and trails throughout the 4 Corners states and beyond.
Any other input or knowledge would be greatly appreciated. thank you for your time!
Last edited by gjcarving; 03-02-2020 at 05:20 PM.
Reason: Add content.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
03-02-2020, 05:29 PM
|
#2
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Washington
Posts: 571
|
|
Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Washington
Posts: 571
|
1. No. Generally you just can't lift KDSS above 3". System will still function fine with a lift.
2. Can't comment, haven't driven a non-KDSS in those scenarios. Unless the washboard is really uneven height between left and right side of the car you won't notice anything.
3. Skid plate, unless you're doing some really gnarly approach angles, won't be an issue.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
03-02-2020, 05:30 PM
|
#3
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,508
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,508
|
I don't own the non-KDSS, but for #1 (as long as it is 3" or less) it will only impede your articulation if you don't get extended length shocks. There are two other ways to improve your articulation on KDSS as well, one is installing a Sonoran Steel Trac bar and the second is being developed by someone who is a member of this message board.
__________________
2017 Off-road Premium w KDSS, moon roof, sliding rear cargo deck,3" Toytech Boss lift, SPC upper control arms, Sonoran Steel High Articulation KDSS Trac/PanHard Bar, RCI sliders, RCI skid plates aluminum including gas tank, C4 Fab diff skid plate, SCS Ray 10 Wheels Matte Gray, 285/70R17 Hankook Dynapro AT2 RF11 E-load RWL, Cali Raised LED 3x2 fog-light pods, Lock'r Down EXxtreme console safe with electronic lock, Auto Heat Shield all windows, Raingler rear cargo net, Canvasback rear covers, LFD Off-Road cross bars aluminum, LFD Hybrid bumper, LFD wind fairing, LFD Hi-lift jack mounts, Goat Armor, Blackgate Custom KDSS spacers, Ironman 2.5 awning with quick release mounts, Ironman 12,000 lb synthetic line winch.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
03-02-2020, 05:57 PM
|
#4
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Arizona
Posts: 86
|
|
Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Arizona
Posts: 86
|
I have KDSS and it's great with curvy mountain highways, but it does nothing for washboard roads. It's still a rough ride. The simple solution is to air down your tires, KDSS or not.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
03-02-2020, 06:01 PM
|
#5
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 545
|
|
Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 545
|
Keep in mind while it's a $1000 option, it's a $3000 to $4000 repair bill if it goes south on you after the warranty is over.
__________________
2018 SR5 Premium MGM
TRD Pro wheels
LT265/70/17C BFG KO2
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
03-02-2020, 06:23 PM
|
#6
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: so cal
Posts: 44
Real Name: Albert M
|
|
Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: so cal
Posts: 44
Real Name: Albert M
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Moleman
Keep in mind while it's a $1000 option, it's a $3000 to $4000 repair bill if it goes south on you after the warranty is over.
|
i spoke with a toyota tech about the KDSS. it is expensive to fix. and he said to me that the ones that have problems, start at around 70k or 80k miles
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
03-02-2020, 07:20 PM
|
#7
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 605
|
|
Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 605
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjcarving
1. If I lift the truck with KDSS does it impede any function of the system? I know a lot of people do it but for me if it doesn't
2. I've driven both and the KDSS definetly feels tighter on road. But, haven't had a chance to stretch their legs on even extended test drives. Does the KDSS actually slow better articulation and a more planted ride? And, how is the feel on washboard roads? I will be doing a lot of that in my state.
3. The skid plate. I can see that the KDSS plate sticks more forward than the non. I've rad a lot of responses of people saying it's a problem. Problem is most I've seen don't even have the KDSS option. Wondering if try experiences of clearances and usage.
|
1. I have 3.25"/2" Front/Rear lift with KDSS and it functions normally. Stay away from long-travel setups and don't lift the rear more than 2" - these can over-extend the KDSS pistons.
2. KDSS definitely feels tighter on the roads. It will feel rougher on washboards above 12 mph, as that is when the front-to-back valve closes. I get very good articulation below 12 mph. What helps more than anything on washboards is to air down. 18-20 psi will still let you move at a pretty good clip, while feeling a lot softer.
3. Never really had an issue with the front skid plate. I'm pretty sure the front skid is the same across the board, with the exception of the Pro front skid. Even then, you can still use that skid plate with KDSS, but you'll have to cut notches in the sides for the sway-bar to articulate.
__________________
2017 TRD ORP KDSS IG
Dobinsons IMS w/ 314/325 Coils - JBA UCAs - Durobumps - Firestone 4108
DRKDSS Disconnect Switch - Treaty Oak KDSS Spacers - Eimkeith PCK
SSO Roof Rack - SSO Sliders - SSO Slimline - Smittybilt X20 10k - RCI Skids
TRD Pro Wheels - Spidertrax Spacers - Mickey Thompson Baja Boss A/T 255/85 R17
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
03-02-2020, 09:45 PM
|
#8
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Nevada
Posts: 58
|
|
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Nevada
Posts: 58
|
I've had two 4Runners with KDSS and one without. The 'without' is a Pro so it still may be apples to oranges. I can tell you, emphatically, the KDSS rides great. It stays a lot more level in the corners. Having said this, it doesn't help nose dive (obviously)... I didn't notice much negative affect of having KDSS off-road. On one of the the two 4Runners w/ KDSS I swapped out the front struts with Bilsteins to level it a little and also offset nose dive. The tech at the Goodyear place had no problem fitting it around the KDSS stuff. In comparison, the ride of the Pro is a lot more plush. I would say it 'wallows' a little but in a good way, if that makes sense. Contrary to popular belief, I see no downside with KDSS (particularly if you won't mess with suspension). Harder to find though and obviously adds a bit of $. I would be hard-pressed to not recommend KDSS. The Pro is a much nicer all around suspension to me, who won't ever upgrade from a factory suspension. Everyone else's points were valid/good too.
__________________
2020 TRDP
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
03-03-2020, 12:36 PM
|
#9
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 1,838
Real Name: BobH
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 1,838
Real Name: BobH
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by baldrik78
What helps more than anything on washboards is to air down. 18-20 psi will still let you move at a pretty good clip, while feeling a lot softer.
|
It's a nuisance, but I always air down for washboard and rough roads. Softens the ride, is easier on suspension parts and better for the passengers.
__________________
2013 Shoreline Blue Trail, n-Fab steps, Bilstein 5100's, Toyo AT2s, Scuba Mod, Air Lift 1000, Yaesu FTM-3200DR (KI7IKX), Husky Liners
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
03-03-2020, 12:59 PM
|
#10
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 14
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 14
|
I had a 2011 Landcruiser which has kdss, and I have a 2020 ORP without. The LC was a perfect highway vehicle discounting the efficiency. Smooth and controlled on everything from mountain roads to the interstate.
I had a bad experience lifting the LC, which impacted my decision to not get it on the 4Runner. The lean and asymmetric solutions like a trim packer on one side are not worth it IMHO.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
03-03-2020, 01:52 PM
|
#11
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: San Diego
Posts: 170
|
|
Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: San Diego
Posts: 170
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikesTE
.. I didn't notice much negative affect of having KDSS off-road. ...
|
I thought KDSS was supposed to help offroading since it effectively disables the sway bars?
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
03-03-2020, 02:05 PM
|
#12
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,508
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,508
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_DML
I thought KDSS was supposed to help offroading since it effectively disables the sway bars?
|
Yea, don't exactly know what he meant, but KDSS does give you better articulation off-road.
__________________
2017 Off-road Premium w KDSS, moon roof, sliding rear cargo deck,3" Toytech Boss lift, SPC upper control arms, Sonoran Steel High Articulation KDSS Trac/PanHard Bar, RCI sliders, RCI skid plates aluminum including gas tank, C4 Fab diff skid plate, SCS Ray 10 Wheels Matte Gray, 285/70R17 Hankook Dynapro AT2 RF11 E-load RWL, Cali Raised LED 3x2 fog-light pods, Lock'r Down EXxtreme console safe with electronic lock, Auto Heat Shield all windows, Raingler rear cargo net, Canvasback rear covers, LFD Off-Road cross bars aluminum, LFD Hybrid bumper, LFD wind fairing, LFD Hi-lift jack mounts, Goat Armor, Blackgate Custom KDSS spacers, Ironman 2.5 awning with quick release mounts, Ironman 12,000 lb synthetic line winch.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
03-03-2020, 05:48 PM
|
#13
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,305
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,305
|
didn't own KDSS, but rented one for long trip that included offroad before buying my current 4Runner
1. no problems <2.5-3", but if you are going more than that or doing long travel that doesn't work with KDSS
2. KDSS feels better at speed and does articulate better as stock. washboards are harsher with KDSS with the stock tires, on my AT tires it's a much smaller difference but i'll still drop the tires ~3-5psi if i have a long stretch of washboard gravel
3. KDSS does limit you a little in regards to front skid, although there are mulitple options compatible with KDSS. similar story with lower control arms, but there are now at least a few KDSS compatible options for KDSS
KDSS is very reliable and used in tons of vehicles, not just 4Runners
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
03-07-2020, 11:30 PM
|
#14
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 262
Real Name: Kirk
|
|
Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 262
Real Name: Kirk
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by am0767
i spoke with a toyota tech about the KDSS. it is expensive to fix. and he said to me that the ones that have problems, start at around 70k or 80k miles
|
"The more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the toilet."
James Dohan aka Scotty
Mercedes ruined me for "hydraulic suspensions". My old S600's last repair was a $5200 bill for the Automatic Body Control system. and you can't just disconnect it, as the struts are made to work exclusively with the ABC system.
Traded the S600 on the 19 TRD PRO WITHOUT KDSS. Not interested, no thank you & you couldn't pay me to have it!
__________________
REMEMBER: Birth control prevents Mini-vans...
2019 TRD PRO: Victory 4x4 Blitz bumper & sliders, Smittybilt 12K, Factor 55, Bubba Rope, Van Beest, C4 Fab, Power Tank, Xenon Depot, Cali Raised LED, ARB, SPC UCA's, Rad Rubber, REDARC, StrongBox, TRD Pro front coils, CE Auto Elect., Blue Sea, SDHQ/SP9100, Cornfed, RCI skids, BajaRack "basket", Revolution Gear 4.88's, Dobinsons 300lb over stock rear springs. DrawTight Class IV frame mounted hitch, Method Racing 703 Bead grip.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
03-07-2020, 11:39 PM
|
#15
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,305
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,305
|
few people have had expensive repairs, it's overwhelmingly reliable to high mileage
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
|