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Old 01-03-2021, 11:34 AM #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metal Tip View Post
Just read all 208 post. I have 5160 on hand, but waiting for the 6112s to come in since they are on back order. I am considering canceling my order and just get the ironman 4x4 set up. Somebody mentioned that they had vibrations at 65 70 mph, anybody else experiencing vibrations at higher speeds.

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I have absolutely no vibration on my set up. Super smooth on the highway. My GF mentions how much better it rides than her GMC Acadia.
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:55 PM #212
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Good to hear. I am highly considering going with the ironman 4x4 set up. If you had 6112s on backorder, would you cancel an go with the ironman 4x4 set up? Anybody have experience with bilstein 6112/5160 and the ironman 4x4?

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Old 01-04-2021, 03:34 PM #213
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Just some feedback on my stage 1 setup. I have the 0-660 performance springs in the back and I am totally not happy with them. Hook up a trailer with 300lb tongue weight and they sag over 2". My FJ had heavy duty springs from Icon. Same trailer, same gear in back, no issues.

Now I have to decide what I want to do. Maybe air bags. To replace with a different set of springs will cost additional money for the springs and installation. I have KDSS and I am not going to mess with that and try to install them on my own.

Otherwise, everything else has been fine and I am overall happy with everything I have bought from Iron Man. I will be reaching out to them today.
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Old 01-05-2021, 09:12 AM #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metal Tip View Post
Good to hear. I am highly considering going with the ironman 4x4 set up. If you had 6112s on backorder, would you cancel an go with the ironman 4x4 set up? Anybody have experience with bilstein 6112/5160 and the ironman 4x4?

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I had FJ Pro suspension which is the 6112/5160 modified by Toyota and went with Foam Cell Pro constant load in front and performance load in the back.

I'm running the following: SSO full roof rack; M.O.R.E. aluminum full set skid plates; Artec aluminum gas tank skid; RCI front filler skid plate; HetfyFab Low-Profile Banshee Bumper; ReszFab flat sliders; Smittybilt 98695 XRC 9.5K GEN3 Winch; Falken Wildpeak AT3W LT285/70-17E totaling a lot of weight.

It takes a while to get used with the ride quality - not as smooth as before. I am impressed how Ironman suspension performs having almost no pitch or roll while braking or taking exits.

If I would do it again, I would go with performance vs constant load for the front as I don't have a full metal front bumper.

As it was mentioned, the rear performance springs can sag with heavy rear load but I would not go with constant load rear spring as it would make the ride way too jumpy - I'm thinking of getting rear air bags.

Hope this helps.
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Old 01-07-2021, 11:06 AM #215
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I'm a bit late here updating my thoughts following my install... I've been going back and forth with Ironman throughout the holidays and have now completed my 4th alignment (Have tried 3 different shops) as of this past weekend.

While I believe the Ironman kit rides very well, I can not recommend their product based on the issues I see. I've not gotten a chance to go off-road with it yet, so I can't comment on the handling there. Honestly, I suspect I'll replace it all before ever going off-road with it. I'm that fed up...

The fronts have now been in and out (6) total times making adjustments. The coilovers came in adjusted completely wrong, it was my fault for not paying attention to the measurements and seeing that the spring seat was over 9" instead of 8.5" - Since then adjustments have been all over the place to get close to a 3" lift. Very inconsistent adjustment, they list ~1:2 adjustment ratio. Sometimes it's that, sometimes it's 1:1, sometimes it's just a crap shoot. My best guess is they are having QC issues on the springs and the springs are having inconsistent rates throughout.

To get a 3" lift I'm now just above a 7" spring seat height, remember it should be close to 8.5" - Tech support can't explain why the coils would be this inconsistent. At this point, I'm done. I'm fed up with the experience, and I've installed nearly every manufacturer out there over the years. You can always get in contact with someone at Ironman, I appreciate that. They have what seems to be a well built sturdy product... Inconsistency at this level is unacceptable. There were other things that were assembled incorrectly on the coilovers which they acknowledged and stood behind. I'm appreciative of that.

Anyone considering these should know you may be in for a frustrating setup period. My alignment is now close to specs, but still has a low caster angle. I've been to a well respected Toyota off-road shop here in Colorado - One everyone would recognize nationally. They even have Ironman products hanging on the wall - There comment to me was they won't sell them any longer because of issues like this. They've had multiple installs with inconsistent results. I'm appreciate of them getting my alignment close to specs.

My best recommendation to anyone would be to read up on all the threads over on the Taco forums and IH8mud - There are many threads where people are fighting similar issues. I wish I'd seen these threads before purchasing. There was even one guy who installed two setups on his and his buddies truck. Identical trucks - One install went perfect, one had serious adjustment that didn't make sense. I think Ironman is just going through a period here in the US where QC may be an issue as they grow.

I'm not hear to bash them publicly and I won't go into further dirty laundry here. I'm happy to speak to anyone off-line. I just want to make people aware that there are some QC issues, you might have a perfect install like RedRunner or you might have challenges. It seems like it's a bit of luck and I had some bad luck.
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Old 01-07-2021, 12:08 PM #216
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Huge thank you to all that came before me here and shared feedback.

I opted to convert from my spacer lift to a suspension lift and despite at-cost pricing for Kings and lots of Bilstein love, I opted for Ironman 4x4 given the value for my use case.

Use Case: Adventures-only 2016 Limited in/around Colorado with summer wheeling, winter ski trips, and Costco runs

Weight Notes: Constant fixed load of !420lbs for SSO Full Roof Rack, Full RCI skids (all of them) with aluminum options where available, RCI flat sliders with kickout, hidden winch mount + winch...and rarely +150lbs for Tepui RTT or a 16' dual console fishing boat.

Previous Setup: Went with a Daystar spacer lift on XREAS and loved the lift AND the company's service -- one of the best experiences out of any company I have ever reached out to. This setup addressed the nose diving from hard braking, gave some good height, but did limit suspension travel when offroad. I wish I did this on day one, not year three. I opted to do a diff drop as well (by Revtek)...jury is out on this but didn't seem to hurt and improved CV angles.

Ironman 4x4 Setup: Foam Cell Pro, Stage 3 with Front (prebuilt) 2.5" / Performance Springs and Rear 2" Performance Load Springs

Alignment: Just had a solid shop in Denver for an alignment and bumper to bumper check to ensure my DIY install went well...all came back okay. They suggested against Heim joints for the adjustable rear sway links due to noise...but it came with the kit and I don't have a problem with the noise. Here are my specs:

OEM UCA & XREAS (old dealer alignment)
  • Left-Front: Camber @ 0.5*, Caster @ 1.9*, Toe @ 0.46*
  • Left-Rear: Camber @ -0.3*, Toe @ -0.08*
  • Right-Front: Camber @ 0.6*, Caster @ 2.2*, Toe @ 0.5*
  • Right-Rear: Camber @ -0.3*, Toe @ 0.08*
  • Total Toe @ 0.96*, Steer Ahead -0.02*

OEM UCA with Daystar 2.5" Front/Rear Spacers on XREAS
  • Left-Front: Camber @ 0*, Caster @ 2.8*, Toe @ 0.04*
  • Left-Rear: Camber @ -0.3*, Toe @ -0.1*
  • Right-Front: Camber @ 0.1*, Caster @ 2.7*, Toe @ 0.05*
  • Right-Rear: Camber @ -0.3*, Toe @ 0.08*
  • Total Toe @ 0.09*, Steer Ahead 0*

Ironmen UCA with 2.5/2" FCP Stage 3 Lift
  • Left-Front: Camber @ 0*, Caster @ 3.4*, Toe @ 0.09*
  • Left-Rear: Camber @ -0.4*, Toe @ -0.35*
  • Right-Front: Camber @ 0*, Caster @ 3.6*, Toe @ 0.08*
  • Right-Rear: Camber @ -0.3*, Toe @ 0.32*
  • Total Toe @ 0.17*, Steer Ahead 0*

Actual Lift Height
  • XREAS Stock - Dont have them
  • XREAS + Daystar - May have them, will look
  • Ironman (+250lbs for mods pre sliders, winch): Left-Front @ 23.5", Right-Front @ 23.4375", Left-Rear @ 24.5", Right-Rear: 24.75"
  • Ironman (+440lbs for all mods): Left-Front @ 22.87", Right-Front @ 23", Left-Rear @ 24.38", Right-Rear: 24.6"

Thoughts So Far
  • I am running FN F(X) Pro 17" wheels with Falken Wildpeak AT3/W LT(E) 265/70-17.
  • When I purchased, Ironman had limited stock but I spoke with their customer service team and after going over my specs, seemed to be the right pick. Great team there!
  • My RTT and 16' fishing boat use cases are rare and I feel airbags are the better option for me versus a much stiffer spring. It isn't tough or expensive to swap front or rear springs now that XREAS is gone should I change my mind.
  • I am glad I waited to see if I needed the usual Toyota lean spacer...my current numbers are close enough but I did buy the adjustment wrench just in case (for the fronts).
  • My 4Runner is no longer a daily driver. So if not on a Costco trip, she is off road or making a run to go skiing...so the truck-like ride is good. For what XREAS was, it's a superior on-road experience to any SUV/truck suspension I have driven in IF smaller/medium spacers are added to the wrong. The braking nose dive wasn't great, but cornering was unmatched.
  • As with nearly every product I have purchased, instructions are hit or miss. Ironman would be mid-pack. They have a good install video on a GX for the stage 2 lift and there are a handful of install guides like Trail4Runner out there. With a bit of Googling, I found the correct panhard and rear sway link adjustments which were most elusive.
  • I think I lost a set screw and will email Ironman...I don't expect any issues but also have no worry...they are extremely responsive and knowledgeable compared to some of the other manufacturers I have come across for Toyota and Chevy.
  • I am at day 7 with 120ish miles on the clock...time will tell how things settle.
  • I plan to add airbags after a RTT trip and a short boat tow to see if I really need them or can live with some sag.

Happy to answer any questions folks have, especially if you are doing the Stage 3 setup and need some pointers.
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Last edited by generald; 01-18-2021 at 01:31 AM.
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Old 01-08-2021, 06:56 PM #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragin_cajun View Post
I'm a bit late here updating my thoughts following my install... I've been going back and forth with Ironman throughout the holidays and have now completed my 4th alignment (Have tried 3 different shops) as of this past weekend.

While I believe the Ironman kit rides very well, I can not recommend their product based on the issues I see. I've not gotten a chance to go off-road with it yet, so I can't comment on the handling there. Honestly, I suspect I'll replace it all before ever going off-road with it. I'm that fed up...

The fronts have now been in and out (6) total times making adjustments. The coilovers came in adjusted completely wrong, it was my fault for not paying attention to the measurements and seeing that the spring seat was over 9" instead of 8.5" - Since then adjustments have been all over the place to get close to a 3" lift. Very inconsistent adjustment, they list ~1:2 adjustment ratio. Sometimes it's that, sometimes it's 1:1, sometimes it's just a crap shoot. My best guess is they are having QC issues on the springs and the springs are having inconsistent rates throughout.

To get a 3" lift I'm now just above a 7" spring seat height, remember it should be close to 8.5" - Tech support can't explain why the coils would be this inconsistent. At this point, I'm done. I'm fed up with the experience, and I've installed nearly every manufacturer out there over the years. You can always get in contact with someone at Ironman, I appreciate that. They have what seems to be a well built sturdy product... Inconsistency at this level is unacceptable. There were other things that were assembled incorrectly on the coilovers which they acknowledged and stood behind. I'm appreciative of that.

Anyone considering these should know you may be in for a frustrating setup period. My alignment is now close to specs, but still has a low caster angle. I've been to a well respected Toyota off-road shop here in Colorado - One everyone would recognize nationally. They even have Ironman products hanging on the wall - There comment to me was they won't sell them any longer because of issues like this. They've had multiple installs with inconsistent results. I'm appreciate of them getting my alignment close to specs.

My best recommendation to anyone would be to read up on all the threads over on the Taco forums and IH8mud - There are many threads where people are fighting similar issues. I wish I'd seen these threads before purchasing. There was even one guy who installed two setups on his and his buddies truck. Identical trucks - One install went perfect, one had serious adjustment that didn't make sense. I think Ironman is just going through a period here in the US where QC may be an issue as they grow.

I'm not hear to bash them publicly and I won't go into further dirty laundry here. I'm happy to speak to anyone off-line. I just want to make people aware that there are some QC issues, you might have a perfect install like RedRunner or you might have challenges. It seems like it's a bit of luck and I had some bad luck.
Sorry to hear about your struggles with the lift, but that is why I started this thread. I wanted everyone to voice their good and bad experiences. All I can say is mine has been good so far and I will keep everyone updated. Again that sucks you had to deal with those QC issues.
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Old 01-14-2021, 07:57 PM #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Louder View Post
Just some feedback on my stage 1 setup. I have the 0-660 performance springs in the back and I am totally not happy with them. Hook up a trailer with 300lb tongue weight and they sag over 2". My FJ had heavy duty springs from Icon. Same trailer, same gear in back, no issues.

Now I have to decide what I want to do. Maybe air bags. To replace with a different set of springs will cost additional money for the springs and installation. I have KDSS and I am not going to mess with that and try to install them on my own.

Otherwise, everything else has been fine and I am overall happy with everything I have bought from Iron Man. I will be reaching out to them today.
Follow up to my own post. Do not buy the "Performance springs" they suck. Major sag with weight under the 660lb rating. Spoke with Ironman. They are recommending I get the 3" lift springs which are for a 440lb-880lb weight rating. I did not get these originally because I do not have a constant load on my springs (factory bumper, no drawer system etc). My trailer has a 300-350lb tongue weight and I probably have 150-200lbs in the back of my truck when camping. The sag is over 3". I would have to measure again the next time I load up. My 4Runner looks like it still has factory springs in back when loaded.

The Icon heavy duty springs I had on my FJ with the same setup did not do this.

https://iconvehicledynamics.com/acce...te-spring-kit/

Ironman won't refund any money because the springs are used. The description of the "2 inch performance springs" is very misleading.

This is going to cost me a good about of money to replace them including installation. With KDSS it is way different than the simple setup on my FJ.

I don't want airbags (another thing that could fail) and I know the ride will likely be very stiff unloaded with the 3" springs. My simple free advice is do not buy either of the 2" spring options from Ironman.

Oh well...
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Old 01-14-2021, 08:29 PM #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Louder View Post
Follow up to my own post. Do not buy the "Performance springs" they suck. Major sag with weight under the 660lb rating. Spoke with Ironman. They are recommending I get the 3" lift springs which are for a 440lb-880lb weight rating. I did not get these originally because I do not have a constant load on my springs (factory bumper, no drawer system etc). My trailer has a 300-350lb tongue weight and I probably have 150-200lbs in the back of my truck when camping. The sag is over 3". I would have to measure again the next time I load up. My 4Runner looks like it still has factory springs in back when loaded.

The Icon heavy duty springs I had on my FJ with the same setup did not do this.

https://iconvehicledynamics.com/acce...te-spring-kit/

Ironman won't refund any money because the springs are used. The description of the "2 inch performance springs" is very misleading.

This is going to cost me a good about of money to replace them including installation. With KDSS it is way different than the simple setup on my FJ.

I don't want airbags (another thing that could fail) and I know the ride will likely be very stiff unloaded with the 3" springs. My simple free advice is do not buy either of the 2" spring options from Ironman.

Oh well...
Replacing them with KDSS isn't bad man. I can send you some instructions, my 2018 has KDSS and I can swap out a set in an hour taking my time. Jacking up and everything. I'm running Icon's on my 2018.

I just pulled the rear Ironman springs on my 2021 as well and installed Icon's in the rear.
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Old 01-14-2021, 09:19 PM #220
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Replacing them with KDSS isn't bad man. I can send you some instructions, my 2018 has KDSS and I can swap out a set in an hour taking my time. Jacking up and everything. I'm running Icon's on my 2018.

I just pulled the rear Ironman springs on my 2021 as well and installed Icon's in the rear.
Sure! Shoot me a PM or link. I have not looked at YouTube yet for installation ideas. Even though this is highly annoying I may wait until I add a rear bumper. That wasn't in my 2021 plans though.
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Old 01-15-2021, 08:58 AM #221
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Here is a picture with our 4Runner with Ironman stage 3 suspension, I have the 660 pound rear springs and they work great for me. I do hate that people seem to be having a problem but I can only say I love my suspension.
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Old 01-15-2021, 10:44 AM #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Louder View Post
Follow up to my own post. Do not buy the "Performance springs" they suck. Major sag with weight under the 660lb rating. Spoke with Ironman. They are recommending I get the 3" lift springs which are for a 440lb-880lb weight rating. I did not get these originally because I do not have a constant load on my springs (factory bumper, no drawer system etc). My trailer has a 300-350lb tongue weight and I probably have 150-200lbs in the back of my truck when camping. The sag is over 3". I would have to measure again the next time I load up. My 4Runner looks like it still has factory springs in back when loaded.

The Icon heavy duty springs I had on my FJ with the same setup did not do this.

https://iconvehicledynamics.com/acce...te-spring-kit/

Ironman won't refund any money because the springs are used. The description of the "2 inch performance springs" is very misleading.

This is going to cost me a good about of money to replace them including installation. With KDSS it is way different than the simple setup on my FJ.

I don't want airbags (another thing that could fail) and I know the ride will likely be very stiff unloaded with the 3" springs. My simple free advice is do not buy either of the 2" spring options from Ironman.

Oh well...
unbolt the 2 vertical bolts that connect the sway bar to the "end links" (so 4 total if you remove both sides). those are easy easier to align then unbolting from the axle tube. the rear end isn't bad to re assemble. Front is annoying i agree lol.
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Old 01-16-2021, 11:46 AM #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinosaur Overland View Post
Here is a picture with our 4Runner with Ironman stage 3 suspension, I have the 660 pound rear springs and they work great for me. I do hate that people seem to be having a problem but I can only say I love my suspension.
Same thing. Bummer hearing the problems people are having. I have had mine for 11k miles with no issues. That is DDing, fully loaded for week long overloading trip and general off-roading. Hopefully it is just a little bump in the road with their QC or something like that.
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Old 01-16-2021, 09:45 PM #224
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FCP Stage 3 after about 200 miles of commuting

I had the team over at RPM Offroad put the Stage 3 on last Tuesday. Immediately I noticed that nose dive during stops (especially "rocking") is minimized and things definitely feel tighter. I went with the stock weight springs as I only have Shrockworks sliders on right now (LFD steel crossbars too, but I imagine that weight is negligible). I feel well planted and it definitely absorbs local speed bumps better than stock suspension did.

Now just waiting for the stock tires to be ready for replacement before I size up to 275/70/17s.

No vibrations or any other issues at both freeway and local driving speeds. So far I've been very happy. We will see how things go once I size up the tires.

I should maybe mention that the shop stocks and sells Ironman products: that might make a difference as to how the install went.
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Old 01-16-2021, 11:11 PM #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Louder View Post
Sure! Shoot me a PM or link. I have not looked at YouTube yet for installation ideas. Even though this is highly annoying I may wait until I add a rear bumper. That wasn't in my 2021 plans though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by honda250xtitan View Post
unbolt the 2 vertical bolts that connect the sway bar to the "end links" (so 4 total if you remove both sides). those are easy easier to align then unbolting from the axle tube. the rear end isn't bad to re assemble. Front is annoying i agree lol.
1Louder,

I am curious about this setup in the SW in the first place.

It obviously relies on the springs to do the work. That should ensure long time between changes/rebuilds but this is the opposite of a desert performance setup.

No wonder spring rates are buried on their website and only marketing stuff shows when you look at the foam cell page. So "Comfort Load" rear is 234lb? What? Stock is 180-185. My Eibach is 202-204.

With a cheap Icon 2.0 or Fox 2.0 or even just Eibach's own shock and Eibach 1.0 lift, the 4Runner will come off any ledge or big rock with no issues at all when loaded with about 200lb in the rear.

So if for Ironman 234lb is comfort, then are the shocks full of marshmallows? I know the Eibach on stock shocks is super comfy, I have run that on Kamikaze, Boxcar, and Elephant Hill, and all the way to Montana plus many dirt roads there, but I also know control was not suitable for more than an experiment. I am sure the IM is better than that, of course, but looks like the same idea.

And 650lb being the minimum front spring rate simply means the front shocks are very weak. I find the 6112 weak, so I run them on 650lb springs. How weak these need to be for 650 to be the baseline?

Looks like a setup optimized for maximum durability at the expense of performance.

Very interesting idea and many here say they love it so that's great, but does not tempt me here in AZ.
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2018 TRD OP non-kdss, well armored, well used
(6112s/650lb at 1.3" lift, Icon 2.0 and Eibach 1" rear, Mickey Thompson ATZ P3 LTE 265 70 17, RCI set of front 3/16 skids, Shrockworks step sliders and 3/16 steel gas tank skid, C4Fab rear diff skid, Rockmen rear LCAs, Total Chaos rear LCA bracket skids).

Last edited by MAST4R; 01-16-2021 at 11:44 PM.
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