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Old 05-01-2020, 09:50 AM #1
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Planning to finally lift my 2019 Trd Offroad ... Please help me decide!

I live in flat South Florida and I daily drive my 5th Gen. I do not need a killer set up but I do want my truck to be properly lifted. My options are:

1) Bilstein coilover lift from Toytec with Total Chaos UCA (what are some benefits vs regular shock and spring set up?? )

2) OME 3'' lift with stock UCA

3) Bilstein 5100 all around with OME springs


For wheel and tires: Stock trail wheels with 285/70/17 ... Now, when it comes to this set up I have read that it will rub if I replace the UCA's so in the event that I do need to replace the wheels I would go with:

ICON Rebound 17x8.5 0MM offset with 285/70/17 KO2


I do want a set up that would be efficient and comfortable for daily driving. I don't mind keeping my stock wheels as I do like them. I would rather not spend the money on new wheels but if they are needed for proper set up then I rather do it right the first time.

I've read numerous threads but I can't seem to make up my mind - If there are any other better set ups please feel free to suggest. Thank you!
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Old 05-01-2020, 09:55 AM #2
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Talk with Mike, he can help.

Dobinsons 5th Gen T4R Suspension options - lots of choices
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Old 05-01-2020, 09:57 AM #3
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Second. He is extremely helpful and has a great reputation here.

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Old 05-01-2020, 10:07 AM #4
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Thanks ! I have seen Dobinson lifts as well... but not sure how good they are. I'll reach out to Mike
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Old 05-01-2020, 11:11 AM #5
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Why not run 275's and then you can lift 2", not worry about rubbing, and not worry about UCAs
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Old 05-01-2020, 11:27 AM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermn View Post
Thanks ! I have seen Dobinson lifts as well... but not sure how good they are. I'll reach out to Mike
I've got the IMS shocks and the ride quality is fantastic. I personally haven't driven a truck with the standard shocks, but my buddy has it and he sold me on getting Dobinsons based on how much he liked it.

Plus they are assembling and including top-hats for free all of May!
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Old 05-01-2020, 11:54 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llDemonll View Post
Why not run 275's and then you can lift 2", not worry about rubbing, and not worry about UCAs
I'm sold on the look of 285's
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Old 05-01-2020, 12:45 PM #8
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Replace the UCAs if you lift.
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Old 05-01-2020, 01:41 PM #9
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If you're set on 285's then you'll need at least a 2" lift, and modifying your fender liners and possibly a body-mount chop to not rub. 2.5" is the upper limit of what stock UCAs will do and retain alignment, so you may need UCAs or you may not. If you're lifting 3" you'll need UCAs

Go 275 and 2" lift and no worry about rubbing or UCAs
Go 285 and 2" lift and modify things with a hammer and do body mount chop until they rub the least. you'll still likely have rubbing in some scenarios
Go 285 and a 3" lift and UCAs and do body mount chop and modify things with a hammer. you shouldn't have any issues with rubbing
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Old 05-01-2020, 02:44 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermn View Post
I'm sold on the look of 285's
This is true.
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Old 05-01-2020, 02:45 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermn View Post
I live in flat South Florida and I daily drive my 5th Gen. I do not need a killer set up but I do want my truck to be properly lifted. My options are:

1) Bilstein coilover lift from Toytec with Total Chaos UCA (what are some benefits vs regular shock and spring set up?? )

2) OME 3'' lift with stock UCA

3) Bilstein 5100 all around with OME springs


For wheel and tires: Stock trail wheels with 285/70/17 ... Now, when it comes to this set up I have read that it will rub if I replace the UCA's so in the event that I do need to replace the wheels I would go with:

ICON Rebound 17x8.5 0MM offset with 285/70/17 KO2


I do want a set up that would be efficient and comfortable for daily driving. I don't mind keeping my stock wheels as I do like them. I would rather not spend the money on new wheels but if they are needed for proper set up then I rather do it right the first time.

I've read numerous threads but I can't seem to make up my mind - If there are any other better set ups please feel free to suggest. Thank you!
Are you keeping the trail rims or not?

Trail rims provide the most 'neutral' offset to minimize rubbing (as best as I can tell from forum posts). Depending upon offset:
-Tire rub on the suspension components (inside)
-Tire rub on the fender well (outside)
This is one reason why vehicles with spacers often rub a lot and need a substantial amount of fender trimming along with BMCs.
Keep the stock trail rims if you can, due to their offset, if you want 285s.

You will get 'free' lift from the larger tire size.

How much suspension lift do you want? Over 2", or if you are having trouble with clearing tires, then aftermarket UCAs will allow you to improve alignment and push forward into the forward fender liner instead of the aft body mount.

Note that lift does not prevent rubbing. Full compression is full compression regardless of the lift height, and same with lock to lock of the steering. With independent suspension, the geometry is fixed. Unless you plan on modifying limit stops, then you'll rub regardless of lift height selected. Independent suspension will cycle from the same extended and compressed limits. A lift only sets a new 'nominal' within the same range of limits. Lifting means you'll have less down travel, which can make for some handling anomalies. There are extended travel suspension setups, but these typically require making the vehicle track wider to meet their goals, which is generally expensive and requires lots of modifying.

Front IFS generalities:
1) Rubber or metal/ptfe joints
-Rubber (matches OEM) : good NVH, damping, reliability, low maintenance : bad = restrictive/resistive flex
-metal/ptfe : good = free movement / flex : bad = reliability, NVH, high maintenance
Note that with Independent Suspension, movements are typically limited by geometry, not bushings/joints
2) ball joint vs. uniball
-ball joint (matches OEM) similar to the rubber pros and cons above
-uniball similar to the metal/ptfe joints above
3) Shocks
-See joint above
-Remote reservoir = decreased reliability (increased complexity)
4) Springs
-Set to the weight of your vehicle and lift height


YMMV
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Old 05-01-2020, 02:58 PM #12
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I went with Dobinson. I donít do much off road except during hunting season. Dobinson seemed to be the best option for me to keep the ride as close to stock as possible while still getting a little lift.
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Old 05-01-2020, 03:11 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llDemonll View Post
If you're set on 285's then you'll need at least a 2" lift, and modifying your fender liners and possibly a body-mount chop to not rub. 2.5" is the upper limit of what stock UCAs will do and retain alignment, so you may need UCAs or you may not. If you're lifting 3" you'll need UCAs

Go 275 and 2" lift and no worry about rubbing or UCAs
Go 285 and 2" lift and modify things with a hammer and do body mount chop until they rub the least. you'll still likely have rubbing in some scenarios
Go 285 and a 3" lift and UCAs and do body mount chop and modify things with a hammer. you shouldn't have any issues with rubbing
I've read about BMC's but it seems like they are not always necessary though? Any thoughts on this?
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Old 05-01-2020, 03:16 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mo_mo View Post
Are you keeping the trail rims or not?

Trail rims provide the most 'neutral' offset to minimize rubbing (as best as I can tell from forum posts). Depending upon offset:
-Tire rub on the suspension components (inside)
-Tire rub on the fender well (outside)
This is one reason why vehicles with spacers often rub a lot and need a substantial amount of fender trimming along with BMCs.
Keep the stock trail rims if you can, due to their offset, if you want 285s.

You will get 'free' lift from the larger tire size.

How much suspension lift do you want? Over 2", or if you are having trouble with clearing tires, then aftermarket UCAs will allow you to improve alignment and push forward into the forward fender liner instead of the aft body mount.

Note that lift does not prevent rubbing. Full compression is full compression regardless of the lift height, and same with lock to lock of the steering. With independent suspension, the geometry is fixed. Unless you plan on modifying limit stops, then you'll rub regardless of lift height selected. Independent suspension will cycle from the same extended and compressed limits. A lift only sets a new 'nominal' within the same range of limits. Lifting means you'll have less down travel, which can make for some handling anomalies. There are extended travel suspension setups, but these typically require making the vehicle track wider to meet their goals, which is generally expensive and requires lots of modifying.

Front IFS generalities:
1) Rubber or metal/ptfe joints
-Rubber (matches OEM) : good NVH, damping, reliability, low maintenance : bad = restrictive/resistive flex
-metal/ptfe : good = free movement / flex : bad = reliability, NVH, high maintenance
Note that with Independent Suspension, movements are typically limited by geometry, not bushings/joints
2) ball joint vs. uniball
-ball joint (matches OEM) similar to the rubber pros and cons above
-uniball similar to the metal/ptfe joints above
3) Shocks
-See joint above
-Remote reservoir = decreased reliability (increased complexity)
4) Springs
-Set to the weight of your vehicle and lift height


YMMV
This is very helpful. I think I will go with a balljoint option. I definitely want UCA's since I do want the 3'' lift. As far as the lift itself, what are the pros and cons of getting a Bilstein lift like the Toytec Ultimate package vs a regular shock and spring lift such as OME 3" lift ? Will the OME be a more factory like feel?
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Old 05-01-2020, 05:47 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermn View Post
This is very helpful. I think I will go with a balljoint option. I definitely want UCA's since I do want the 3'' lift. As far as the lift itself, what are the pros and cons of getting a Bilstein lift like the Toytec Ultimate package vs a regular shock and spring lift such as OME 3" lift ? Will the OME be a more factory like feel?

Shocks:
Progressive vs. digressive valving (not getting into details here)
Body diameter
Remote reservoirs

Front shocks:
A bilstein 5100 is going to be close to stock damping. The 6112s are a bit beefier (larger diameter), which means they won't heat and fade quite as quickly (not really an issue for daily drivers). The 8112s are going to have remote reservoirs, which will improve heat and fade even more at the cost of extra hardware for a potential reliability hit. The larger diameter shocks will be slightly stiffer when cold as they're designed to be warmed up to hit their damping targets. bilsteins are going to be digressive.

I think bilstein has some similar options for the rear end, but that's simpler than the front.

I was originally split between Bilstein and OME. I think they'll be similar overall, but I haven't run either on this vehicle so I can't truly compare. Look into the adjustability of fine tuning the ride heights for each. I think the bilsteins will have different clips, while the OME (except for the bp-51) are typically done with new springs (although I could be wrong). My experience with OMEs on a past vehicle was the springs were a bit on the stiff side, so if you are running some extra weight that will help soften the ride (armor/skids/gear...).

I've opted for the ironman kit (there was a coupon code floating around here about a week ago). I'm just waiting to install it. I appreciated the rubber on all joints to keep things 'oemish' including the UCAs. It'll probably be similar to a 6112 setup.
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