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Old 05-10-2020, 04:54 PM #1
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Regearing my SR5. Will I regret not adding rear air locker?

Just wondering if there is anyone out there that has re-geared a SR5, and didnít opt for the air locker since everything was open? Getting my 4.56ís installed this week and Iím having second thoughts on the locker.

I live in an area where thereís no real chance of rock crawling. Just some good ol mud, and rocky terrain in the mtns. Iíve always been a guy that says Ďgo big or go homeí but with work being dead lately I was nervous about spending another 2grand on that. But right now Iím thinking I might regret it down the road...
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Old 05-10-2020, 06:15 PM #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyAb View Post
Just wondering if there is anyone out there that has re-geared a SR5, and didnít opt for the air locker since everything was open? Getting my 4.56ís installed this week and Iím having second thoughts on the locker.

I live in an area where thereís no real chance of rock crawling. Just some good ol mud, and rocky terrain in the mtns. Iíve always been a guy that says Ďgo big or go homeí but with work being dead lately I was nervous about spending another 2grand on that. But right now Iím thinking I might regret it down the road...
On my 2005 I installed an ARB air locker, not so much for rock crawling but for sand, mud snow etc. I have a trailer I take offroad often so the locker was a good thing. I kept my stock differential as it was in a 5 gallon bucket as a back up. When I sold the 4th gen I reinstalled the original 3rd member and sold the ARB separately.

I bought my 2018 with the OEM E-Locker and it too has been very useful, especially on my last trip in Death Valley where I climbed a steep dirt road with loose rocks and dirt.

So when money becomes available you can always build a complete ARB 3rd member and do the swap when you are ready, keeping the OEM 3rd member in reserve.
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Old 05-10-2020, 07:16 PM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyAb View Post
Just wondering if there is anyone out there that has re-geared a SR5, and didnít opt for the air locker since everything was open? Getting my 4.56ís installed this week and Iím having second thoughts on the locker.

I live in an area where thereís no real chance of rock crawling. Just some good ol mud, and rocky terrain in the mtns. Iíve always been a guy that says Ďgo big or go homeí but with work being dead lately I was nervous about spending another 2grand on that. But right now Iím thinking I might regret it down the road...
I can't speak about whether it's a smart financial decision for you, but I wouldn't want to not have one, personally. It's been the difference between really being stuck and still rolling more than a few times. I've had one in my last two, don't think I'll have another one without it.
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Old 05-10-2020, 07:25 PM #4
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Can you install an anti slip in instead of a locker?
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Old 05-10-2020, 11:31 PM #5
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I would kick myself for not doing the differential if I going to open for gearing.

That said, if you don't plan on crawling and getting a tire off ground, it's going to be of little use to you and a waste of cash.

There are other types of traction devices to consider... if I didn't have wheels leaving the ground on the regular basis, I would look into something like a mechanical limited slip. (Torsen style / Detroid trutrac)
  • No maintenance when compared to a clutch based system
  • It's always "on" and working (unlike a selectable locker)
  • Works on and off/road
  • Provides more traction and benefit for your use case.
  • Seems like it would compliment ATRAC for the tougher situations where you might be doing some light crawling.
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Old 05-10-2020, 11:51 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumbo View Post
I would kick myself for not doing the differential if I going to open for gearing.

That said, if you don't plan on crawling and getting a tire off ground, it's going to be of little use to you and a waste of cash.

There are other types of traction devices to consider... if I didn't have wheels leaving the ground on the regular basis, I would look into something like a mechanical limited slip. (Torsen style / Detroid trutrac)
  • No maintenance when compared to a clutch based system
  • It's always "on" and working (unlike a selectable locker)
  • Works on and off/road
  • Provides more traction and benefit for your use case.
  • Seems like it would compliment ATRAC for the tougher situations where you might be doing some light crawling.
Yes and no. LSDs are certainly better than open differentials, but both clutch type and Torsens will behave identically to an open differential if a wheel is off the ground.

OP: If you don't see yourself needing a locker for the type of off roading you do, you should probably save your money and just leave the open diffs in there.
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Old 05-11-2020, 12:02 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muff Muff View Post
Yes and no. LSDs are certainly better than open differentials, but both clutch type and Torsens will behave identically to an open differential if a wheel is off the ground.

OP: If you don't see yourself needing a locker for the type of off roading you do, you should probably save your money and just leave the open diffs in there.
I am well aware... All not all off-road requires a locker. When I said off-road I was saying it in response to the original post requirements. "no real chance of rock crawling. Just some good ol mud, and rocky terrain in the mtns"

Plus, if you know how to drive a Torsens diff, you can go a long way without a locker. Apply a little break manually will allow the wheel without traction to turn. This is exactly what ATRAC does, therefore you will still get benefit with a wheel off the ground. Obviously it just won't be as effective as a real locker, but the OP has absolutely no use for.

At this this is provide a benefit in all driving scenarios the OP is going to use it in.

If he has cash burning a hole in his pocket during a gearing job... I would still go with a Torsen over a locker based on what he said, because he will probably get more use from it.

If you know you might end up doing any crawling or the off-road places you go will get a tire off the ground, then the choice of easy.
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Old 05-11-2020, 12:25 AM #8
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Thanks guys! I got a big decision to make lol. I already was planning on board air so that lessens the butthurt. Also was looking into a 6 week trip down through Death Valley, over to New Mexico/Arizona and back up through Colorado Idaho and Montana. Iím thinking It might come in handy then as the guy Iím wheelin with does push me to do the technical stuff. Wouldnít hurt for resale eh!
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Old 05-11-2020, 12:37 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyAb View Post
Thanks guys! I got a big decision to make lol. I already was planning on board air so that lessens the butthurt. Also was looking into a 6 week trip down through Death Valley, over to New Mexico/Arizona and back up through Colorado Idaho and Montana. Iím thinking It might come in handy then as the guy Iím wheelin with does push me to do the technical stuff. Wouldnít hurt for resale eh!
Was at Mengal in Death Valley last December. It rained hard before and after we were there and found the trail pretty rutted in some areas. Rear locker was pretty helpful in some of those parts. Doable without locker and with some momentum but the locker was nice.
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Old 05-11-2020, 01:58 AM #10
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OP, lockers are good for mud and sand. I would put one in, for sure, if you are getting on-board air.
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Old 05-11-2020, 01:59 AM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumbo View Post
I would kick myself for not doing the differential if I going to open for gearing.

That said, if you don't plan on crawling and getting a tire off ground, it's going to be of little use to you and a waste of cash.

There are other types of traction devices to consider... if I didn't have wheels leaving the ground on the regular basis, I would look into something like a mechanical limited slip. (Torsen style / Detroid trutrac)
  • No maintenance when compared to a clutch based system
  • It's always "on" and working (unlike a selectable locker)
  • Works on and off/road
  • Provides more traction and benefit for your use case.
  • Seems like it would compliment ATRAC for the tougher situations where you might be doing some light crawling.
What LSD's are available for 5th gens?
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Old 05-11-2020, 10:28 AM #12
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Why don't you install a E-locker (Eaton seems to be the brand of choice there) instead of an air locker? That way you won't have to worry about air leaks or the addition of an air compressor under the hood.
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Old 05-11-2020, 11:03 AM #13
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If you don't need it now - you probably won't regret it. I would put one in for my own use. But - the ATRAC really is pretty good. For most people it's more than enough. I would not put a limited slip in. ATRAC is already better than any limited slip I know of. So it would just be throwing your money away.



The situation where a locker helps most are where there is a big difference between static and kinetic friction. Meaning once the tire spins you lose a lot of traction. Snow and ice is the most significant gap between the two traction types. So lockers are more beneficial as compared to traction control on snow and ice than any other surface condition. The next would probably be something like loose rocks/dirt. On the other end of the spectrum is high traction surfaces like slickrock in Utah. They are probably least beneficial on that type of rocks. Other conditions are somewhere in between.

I would rather have a winch than a rear locker since you already have ATRAC. If you didn't have ATRAC - yeah, front and rear lockers would be the first place i'd spend my $. But since you already have ATRAC and it's pretty damn good. Winch would be where I'd spend my $. If you don't have one. I use my rear locker a lot more. But I could get by without it. When I need the winch - I NEED the winch. There's really no alternative that offers as much bang for the buck in terms of overall utility for me as a winch when you're stuck.

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Old 05-11-2020, 10:27 PM #14
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Quote:
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If you don't need it now - you probably won't regret it. I would put one in for my own use. But - the ATRAC really is pretty good. For most people it's more than enough. I would not put a limited slip in. ATRAC is already better than any limited slip I know of. So it would just be throwing your money away.



The situation where a locker helps most are where there is a big difference between static and kinetic friction. Meaning once the tire spins you lose a lot of traction. Snow and ice is the most significant gap between the two traction types. So lockers are more beneficial as compared to traction control on snow and ice than any other surface condition. The next would probably be something like loose rocks/dirt. On the other end of the spectrum is high traction surfaces like slickrock in Utah. They are probably least beneficial on that type of rocks. Other conditions are somewhere in between.

I would rather have a winch than a rear locker since you already have ATRAC. If you didn't have ATRAC - yeah, front and rear lockers would be the first place i'd spend my $. But since you already have ATRAC and it's pretty damn good. Winch would be where I'd spend my $. If you don't have one. I use my rear locker a lot more. But I could get by without it. When I need the winch - I NEED the winch. There's really no alternative that offers as much bang for the buck in terms of overall utility for me as a winch when you're stuck.
Thank you! Great video, I do have a winch and have used it to get me out of some serious spots in the past. I spent some time with the guy whoís working on my 4Runner and heís in agreement that Since I havenít needed it till now, donít worry about it and just use my winch or get better at driving lol.
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Old 05-11-2020, 11:19 PM #15
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I went for many years on my 4th Gen without a locker until I had experienced most of ATRAC's limitations and benefits. ATRAC's main limitation is that it requires a wheel to first lose traction and spin before it can kick in braking. A locker (once engaged) will stay locked regardless of RPMs.

Both have their advantages and with my OEM E-locker and select-able ATRAC I can use them separately or together.
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