User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-19-2014, 11:15 AM #1
1engineer's Avatar
1engineer 1engineer is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Southern Appalachian Mountains
Age: 61
Posts: 9,941
Real Name: Greg
1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light
1engineer 1engineer is offline
Moderator
1engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Southern Appalachian Mountains
Age: 61
Posts: 9,941
Real Name: Greg
1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light
5th Gen Dirty Rear Camera - Possible Solution

Since as long as I have been a member here there have been threads on our dirty rear windows and cameras. Many solutions have been brought forth and debated by several members from adding a "sleeve" around the camera lens to adding an additional rear washer nozzle for cleaning.

The real problem is aerodynamics. As our vehicles go down the road, a low pressure system is created behind the vehicle and all the atomized dust, water and dirt that is kicked up from the tires is sucked up behind the vehicle (due to the lower pressures) and the residual material sticks to the window, tailgate and backup camera.

I have said that the only real solution would be a mud flap that runs the full width of the vehicle mounted right underneath the rear bumper. That solution has its drawbacks though as 1) Its ugly 2) It would get ripped off going off road and 3) Its ugly.

Well, we may have another solution.
Cadillac is coming out with a full rear view mirror camera that will give you real time video of the rear view. If the video fails it reverts back to a normal rear view mirror. Now we have no such technology on our trusty 4Runners but we do have back up cameras and I was curious how the GM engineers are going to keep that camera lens clean. Well, it turns out that they are going to use a superhydrophobic coating on the lens. Some here already know what this is but for those of you that don't here is the definition from Wiki:

In chemistry, hydrophobicity is the physical property of a molecule (known as a hydrophobe) that is seemingly repelled from a mass of water.[1] (Strictly speaking, there is no repulsive force involved; it is an absence of attraction.)

Hydrophobic molecules tend to be non-polar and, thus, prefer other neutral molecules and non-polar solvents. Hydrophobic molecules in water often cluster together, forming micelles. Water on hydrophobic surfaces will exhibit a high contact angle.

Examples of hydrophobic molecules include the alkanes, oils, fats, and greasy substances in general. Hydrophobic materials are used for oil removal from water, the management of oil spills, and chemical separation processes to remove non-polar substances from polar compounds.[2]

Hydrophobic is often used interchangeably with lipophilic, "fat-loving." However, the two terms are not synonymous. While hydrophobic substances are usually lipophilic, there are exceptions—such as the silicones and fluorocarbons.

The term hydrophobe comes from the Ancient Greek ὑδρόφοβος, "having a horror of water", constructed from ὕδωρ, "water", and φόβος, "fear".[3]

So that's the definition. In real terms the product I am most familiar with is "Ever-Dry" that you can buy at Lowes or Home Depot to spray your boots or anything else with to repel water. The problem with this product is it dries to a clear haze and does not last a long time. Well, I figured the smart guys at Cadillac were not going to use something bought at Lowes so I started doing a bit of research.

Turns out there are several commercial and industrial grade coatings out there for specific applications. Here is a link to one of them:
Product Catalog:*3M? Novec? 1720 Electronic Grade Coating

Now I have NOT used this product (yet) so I do not know if it will work as advertised. It also works with covalent bonding so it is pretty much permanent. What that means to me is if it works on a camera lens, great. If it does not and hazes up, then you need a new backup camera lens because this stuff can't be removed. I am going to research this some more but as of now, it looks like it could be a solution to the dirty backup camera lens we all suffer from in the winter.
Any other real solutions?
1engineer is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 11:33 AM #2
Styer's Avatar
Styer Styer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Nashville
Posts: 224
Styer is on a distinguished road
Styer Styer is offline
Member
Styer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Nashville
Posts: 224
Styer is on a distinguished road
great start 1engineer. I will be watching this closely. maybe doing my own research
Styer is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 12:17 PM #3
mo_mo mo_mo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Earth
Posts: 582
mo_mo has a spectacular aura about mo_mo has a spectacular aura about
mo_mo mo_mo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Earth
Posts: 582
mo_mo has a spectacular aura about mo_mo has a spectacular aura about
I'll apologize for skimming your post 1eng so if this is addressed, I may have missed it (on mobile).

Isn't rain-x hydrophobic?

Will a full width undercarriage mudflat/skirt decrease back pressure further creating a larger stagnant zone behind the vehicle?
__________________
2014 T4R TE Nav KDSS Super White
Demello Hybrid Bolt On Sliders | Toyo Open Country AT III LT285/70R17 C | Ironman 4x4 Foam Cell Pro Stage 2 | Durobumps | Rago Molle Panels | Leather steering wheel cover | RCI Full Skids (Aluminum) | Drawer less drawer system and sleeping platform. | TRD CAI | RAV4 Sideview Mirrors: 87961-42D20 & 87931-42D50 | Blackvue DR650S-2CH | Cobra 75 WX ST with 4’ Firestik + Magnet Roof Top Mount | MXT275 Midland GMRS radio | 3M Crystalline: Front CR70, A-B CR50, B-Aft CR40 | RRW Leather Seat Covers w/Besond Seat Heaters| 3DMax Floor Mats and Rear Husky Liner | former LT265/70R17 C Duratracs
mo_mo is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 12:40 PM #4
1engineer's Avatar
1engineer 1engineer is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Southern Appalachian Mountains
Age: 61
Posts: 9,941
Real Name: Greg
1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light
1engineer 1engineer is offline
Moderator
1engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Southern Appalachian Mountains
Age: 61
Posts: 9,941
Real Name: Greg
1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo_mo View Post
I'll apologize for skimming your post 1eng so if this is addressed, I may have missed it (on mobile).

Isn't rain-x hydrophobic?

Will a full width undercarriage mudflat/skirt decrease back pressure further creating a larger stagnant zone behind the vehicle?
Yes Rain X is hydrophobic. The problem with it is the bond. It will not bond and requires frequent re coating and is not a permanent durable coating.

The full width mudflap will only knock down the dust and moisture. The low pressure area is still there but most of the stuff that would be sucked into that area is now on the flap instead of in the air. Eventually your back glass would still get dirty it should just take much longer.
1engineer is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 01:06 PM #5
philsey's Avatar
philsey philsey is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 6,046
Real Name: Um, Phil?
philsey has a spectacular aura about philsey has a spectacular aura about
philsey philsey is offline
Elite Member
philsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 6,046
Real Name: Um, Phil?
philsey has a spectacular aura about philsey has a spectacular aura about
1. Lick thumb
2. Rub thumb on lens
3. Wipe thumb on pants.
__________________
2010 Blizzard Pearl SR5/P - traded
2018 Superwhite SR5/P ... IS350 retrofit.
philsey is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 01:10 PM #6
meRockboost meRockboost is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Temporarily a M*******
Posts: 374
Real Name: Rock
meRockboost is on a distinguished road
meRockboost meRockboost is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Temporarily a M*******
Posts: 374
Real Name: Rock
meRockboost is on a distinguished road
So use the 2 part "never wet" stuff is what your saying. Anyone try it yet?
meRockboost is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 01:18 PM #7
Whiplash Willy's Avatar
Whiplash Willy Whiplash Willy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, Or
Age: 43
Posts: 773
Whiplash Willy is on a distinguished road
Whiplash Willy Whiplash Willy is offline
Member
Whiplash Willy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, Or
Age: 43
Posts: 773
Whiplash Willy is on a distinguished road
Opti-Coat is a permanent (permanent unless abrasively removed) hydrophobic coating that is safe on automotive paint and plastics. My entire 4runner (Including headlights and tail lights) was coated with it, and there is no haze (when applied properly) so it should be safe to apply to the camera lens.

As far as longevity, I have had it for about 1.5 years, and it still reacts as it did when it was first applied. However, even with all of it's hydrophobic properties, my entire hatch, and lower half of the 4runner gets coated with road dirt and grime after a week of driving in the rain. It stays clean longer then an uncoated vehicle, and it is much easier to clean as well, however from my experience with this hydrophobic coating, I wounder how effective others would be on the camera lens. Also, all it takes is 30sec and a wet cloth to clean the rear view lens.

Opti-Coat's Hydrophobic Properties:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbLl9vpTyvw

Opti-Coat's Longevity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVYm9JyyNRs

My Opti-Coat Thread:
Opti-Coated The Runner!
Whiplash Willy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 01:27 PM #8
1engineer's Avatar
1engineer 1engineer is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Southern Appalachian Mountains
Age: 61
Posts: 9,941
Real Name: Greg
1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light
1engineer 1engineer is offline
Moderator
1engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Southern Appalachian Mountains
Age: 61
Posts: 9,941
Real Name: Greg
1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light
Quote:
Originally Posted by philsey View Post
1. Lick thumb
2. Rub thumb on lens
3. Wipe thumb on pants.
That's what I do now and it works fine. Unfortunately most consumers are not prepared to put in that much effort, which is why I am researching alternate "engineered" methods. I am intrigued by the Cadillac full rear view mirror camera though. It will basically take the place of a standard rear view mirror with high speed real time video and it eliminates all the blind spots that the rear pillars, head rests and frost and snow cause. My curiosity was piqued as I read about their solution to the age old problem of crap-on-the-lens-making-things-blurry issue.

I would think that even with a coating, we would still have to employ the 'ol wet-thumb-across-the-lens-wipe-on-the-pants technique but only in extraordinary situations.

Edit: The type of tech that will come on the Cadillac is precisely the what I was alluding to in my "7th Gen" thread. I could see this tech making it's way down to a mid range vehicle eventually.

Last edited by 1engineer; 12-19-2014 at 01:39 PM.
1engineer is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 01:36 PM #9
1engineer's Avatar
1engineer 1engineer is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Southern Appalachian Mountains
Age: 61
Posts: 9,941
Real Name: Greg
1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light
1engineer 1engineer is offline
Moderator
1engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Southern Appalachian Mountains
Age: 61
Posts: 9,941
Real Name: Greg
1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiplash Willy View Post
Opti-Coat is a permanent (permanent unless abrasively removed) hydrophobic coating that is safe on automotive paint and plastics. My entire 4runner (Including headlights and tail lights) was coated with it, and there is no haze (when applied properly) so it should be safe to apply to the camera lens.

As far as longevity, I have had it for about 1.5 years, and it still reacts as it did when it was first applied. However, even with all of it's hydrophobic properties, my entire hatch, and lower half of the 4runner gets coated with road dirt and grime after a week of driving in the rain. It stays clean longer then an uncoated vehicle, and it is much easier to clean as well, however from my experience with this hydrophobic coating, I wounder how effective others would be on the camera lens. Also, all it takes is 30sec and a wet cloth to clean the rear view lens.

Opti-Coat's Hydrophobic Properties:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbLl9vpTyvw

Opti-Coat's Longevity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVYm9JyyNRs

My Opti-Coat Thread:
Opti-Coated The Runner!
'
Yes, opti-coat is a solution. As I was doing my initial research I was looking for a permanent coating. I think Opti-Coat is a great consumer grade product but I am looking for a industrial grade professional solution that can be applied, thermally cured and is there forever with all the repellant properties intact.
1engineer is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 01:39 PM #10
cbreze's Avatar
cbreze cbreze is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Central Oregon
Posts: 523
Real Name: Jim
cbreze is on a distinguished road
cbreze cbreze is offline
Member
cbreze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Central Oregon
Posts: 523
Real Name: Jim
cbreze is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by philsey View Post
1. Lick thumb
2. Rub thumb on lens
3. Wipe thumb on pants.
This has been my method. Not high tech enough?
__________________
Lovin' my 4R
cbreze is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 01:50 PM #11
NoDak's Avatar
NoDak NoDak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Minot, ND
Age: 57
Posts: 3,131
Real Name: JR
NoDak is on a distinguished road
NoDak NoDak is offline
Senior Member
NoDak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Minot, ND
Age: 57
Posts: 3,131
Real Name: JR
NoDak is on a distinguished road
the only problem I see and this applies currently to the latest 4runners, they already have a hydrophobic glass on the front driver/passenger side glass if I am correct.

now if you never encounter and moisture and just pure dust conditions, this type of glass still wont solve your issue if the dust up is anything above mild.

even putting rain-x on the side heated mirrors helps winter time, but during the summer time (and we have a big issue with dust up here due to the constant wind) it somewhat helps but doesn't completely resolve the issue.

the only option I see for a rear view is to either :

1: do it ala VW, it flips out when needed
2. use the side mirrors and use a camera pointing back and then merge the two inputs into a single view
3. incorporate a wiper of some sort into the rear view camera (big issue will be longevity/durability of this type of movement)
4. put a camera inside the rear with a pov looking out thru the wiped area of the rear wiper

just some quik thoughts.
__________________
80 PhoenixLJ/84 CelicaGT/84 & 87 Cressida/89 Toy Truck 2wd/91 Cressida x 2/93 Paseo/96 Protege/98 4Rv6/04 4R Sport v8/06 Taco AC v6/07 Sonata SE v6/09 Rav4 v6/10 Legacy 3.6R/12 Taco DC v6/09 Avenger SXT/09 Corolla XLE/14 4R LE/14 Rav4 XLE/15 Camry XSE/16 Taco DC v6 Sport/16 Highlander XLE/18 Tundra Plat/18 Santa Fe Ult

2014 4R LE Classic Silver Build Thread
E5-Exhaust Tip / MF-Mudflaps / R6-Running Boards / 2Q-All Weather Mats / 3P-Paint Protection Film
NoDak is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 01:51 PM #12
philsey's Avatar
philsey philsey is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 6,046
Real Name: Um, Phil?
philsey has a spectacular aura about philsey has a spectacular aura about
philsey philsey is offline
Elite Member
philsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 6,046
Real Name: Um, Phil?
philsey has a spectacular aura about philsey has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1engineer View Post
.... The type of tech that will come on the Cadillac is precisely the what I was alluding to in my "7th Gen" thread. I could see this tech making it's way down to a mid range vehicle eventually.
Cadillac CT6 will get high-res streaming video rearview mirror
__________________
2010 Blizzard Pearl SR5/P - traded
2018 Superwhite SR5/P ... IS350 retrofit.
philsey is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 01:53 PM #13
Whiplash Willy's Avatar
Whiplash Willy Whiplash Willy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, Or
Age: 43
Posts: 773
Whiplash Willy is on a distinguished road
Whiplash Willy Whiplash Willy is offline
Member
Whiplash Willy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, Or
Age: 43
Posts: 773
Whiplash Willy is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1engineer View Post
'
Yes, opti-coat is a solution. As I was doing my initial research I was looking for a permanent coating. I think Opti-Coat is a great consumer grade product but I am looking for a industrial grade professional solution that can be applied, thermally cured and is there forever with all the repellant properties intact.
I do see Opti-Coat 2.0 Pro as a professional grade product (only available to Professional detailers). There is a consumer grade version as well, that is available to consumers.

I believe either version would last the life of the vehicle (especially on a camera lens). It is relatively easy to apply as well, especially for such a small area. Just a thorough cleaning of the lens and then wipe on to apply.

Would the "industrial grade professional solution that can be applied, thermally cured" you are thinking of require you to remove the camera, or could it be left in place.

It seems that the person who is to lazy to lick their thumb and wipe off the lens, also would be to lazy to go through the trouble of getting a industrial coating put on, or Opti-Coat as well for that matter.
Whiplash Willy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 01:53 PM #14
NoDak's Avatar
NoDak NoDak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Minot, ND
Age: 57
Posts: 3,131
Real Name: JR
NoDak is on a distinguished road
NoDak NoDak is offline
Senior Member
NoDak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Minot, ND
Age: 57
Posts: 3,131
Real Name: JR
NoDak is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbreze View Post
This has been my method. Not high tech enough?

I walk behind mine every morning in the garage, not that hard to wipe it with the thumb.

and the end of the day home from work, I walk around the 4runner to see if anyone scratched it or whatever, thumb wipe also.

but then again I have to do this everyday due to the winter conditions. the rear of the truck is poop brown from the dirt used on the slick roads.

and it wont be washed until next spring anyway.
__________________
80 PhoenixLJ/84 CelicaGT/84 & 87 Cressida/89 Toy Truck 2wd/91 Cressida x 2/93 Paseo/96 Protege/98 4Rv6/04 4R Sport v8/06 Taco AC v6/07 Sonata SE v6/09 Rav4 v6/10 Legacy 3.6R/12 Taco DC v6/09 Avenger SXT/09 Corolla XLE/14 4R LE/14 Rav4 XLE/15 Camry XSE/16 Taco DC v6 Sport/16 Highlander XLE/18 Tundra Plat/18 Santa Fe Ult

2014 4R LE Classic Silver Build Thread
E5-Exhaust Tip / MF-Mudflaps / R6-Running Boards / 2Q-All Weather Mats / 3P-Paint Protection Film
NoDak is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 02:05 PM #15
Masaro Masaro is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: The Office
Posts: 94
Masaro is on a distinguished road
Masaro Masaro is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: The Office
Posts: 94
Masaro is on a distinguished road
This would also work

1. Lick thumb
2. Rub thumb on lens
3. Lick thumb




Quote:
Originally Posted by philsey View Post
1. Lick thumb
2. Rub thumb on lens
3. Wipe thumb on pants.
Masaro is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rear hatch jammed (my solution) [email protected] 4th Gen T4Rs 2 05-13-2014 11:46 PM
Rear Bumper Solution FFRC 4th Gen T4Rs 6 01-14-2011 06:42 PM
Rear window gets dirty FAST! Rob_G 5th gen T4Rs 12 11-03-2010 04:38 PM
factory rear air lift solution good so far 4runnerforum 4th Gen T4Rs 2 12-04-2009 10:55 AM
Back window / rear of 4Runner is always dirty. sbbamafan 4th Gen T4Rs 72 04-12-2006 09:55 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:12 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
***This site is an unofficial Toyota site, and is not officially endorsed, supported, authorized by or affiliated with Toyota. All company, product, or service names references in this web site are used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Toyota name, marks, designs and logos, as well as Toyota model names, are registered trademarks of Toyota Motor Corporation***Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
Copyright © 2020