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Old 06-27-2020, 01:29 PM #16
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Originally Posted by Space King View Post
It doesn't.
Nose dive is a product of the relationship between the control arms' pivot points and the wheel center. Since the suspension geometry is the same between all models of the T4R, so is the nose dive. The varying spring/strut setups change the rate at which the nose dives, but not the overall amount.
Interesting point. Perhaps the proper thing to say is that the nose dive doesn't appear so prevalent - would that be an accurate statement?
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Old 06-27-2020, 01:41 PM #17
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Originally Posted by DallasTRDPro View Post
Ive driven the GC after many Wranglers. I thought it was really a really nice drive especially with the Hemi. It handled nice, but off road doesn't really compare with the Pro. I needed more rugged inside and out and the GC is a car dressed as an SUV. Another thing that you already know is the GC will require more to keep running 10 years down the road.
I think as far as my off-road needs are concerned, the GC would probably be fine, but I've been spoiled by my current Acura (a 2013 TSX) that has needed nothing other than routine maintenance in the past 100k miles (with the exception of a failed lighter outlet and a misbehaving BT module).

Even if the GC doesn't have any catastrophic failures, it sounds like every dealer visit is a headache. The Jeep forums all talk about how the GC is reliable but then there are reports of things that shouldn't happen on non-modded cars - suspension failures, recurring headlight failures, radio issues and so forth. Most won't leave you stranded, but all require a visit to the dealer very soon.
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Old 06-27-2020, 02:11 PM #18
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"I've been waffling between the 4R, a Grand Cherokee..."

One of each here:

2017 JGC limited 2wd. This used to be mine and the wife took it over when i retired. Possibly the one of best commuting vehicles out there. Comfy, quick, 29+ mpg (3.6 pentastar V6), can take 5 out to lunch, great home depot / costco hauler. all around great vehicle. Jeep dealers have been pretty easy to deal with, I have the lifetime warranty, and have not had many issues (a sensor failed - twice, replaced with no problems.)


2018 T4R SR5 premium. I got this when she took the JGC. Not as great for commuting (came out of retirement for two months), not as responsive. Similar ride to a Tacoma, a lot more rugged / aggressive looking. Again, great home depot / costco hauler (more room than the JGC). Ride was a little bit bouncy too much break dive / cornering lean. mileage is 19 - 20 at best on a road trip.


2018 T4R SR5 premium AFTER HAVING THE EIBACH PRO TRUCK KIT INSTALLED. ride is MUCH BETTER !!! no bouncing or noticeable break dive / cornering lean. Perfect for a road trip with 4 adult passengers. mileage is still 19 - 20 at best on a road trip. Great for around town driving. Toyota dealers have been fine to deal with, but i never go to them (got the free 10k mile oil change), will get the 2 year oil change (thanks to COVID it will probably be only 5k miles and not needed).



If i had to commute 80+ miles every day, I'd probably want the JGC, BUT driving the T4R mostly around town and on the occasional road trip / vacation I'll take the 4Runner.
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Old 06-27-2020, 04:04 PM #19
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Originally Posted by cb1111 View Post
I think as far as my off-road needs are concerned, the GC would probably be fine, but I've been spoiled by my current Acura (a 2013 TSX) that has needed nothing other than routine maintenance in the past 100k miles (with the exception of a failed lighter outlet and a misbehaving BT module).

Even if the GC doesn't have any catastrophic failures, it sounds like every dealer visit is a headache. The Jeep forums all talk about how the GC is reliable but then there are reports of things that shouldn't happen on non-modded cars - suspension failures, recurring headlight failures, radio issues and so forth. Most won't leave you stranded, but all require a visit to the dealer very soon.
Anything Fiat touches turns to a piece of crap.
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Old 06-27-2020, 05:37 PM #20
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Had 3 runners this past year. Orp with toytec, pro- stock and now orp with Eibachs.
Pro had better on road handling and ride than any of them. The stock orp is terrible in comparison
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Old 06-27-2020, 05:39 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasTRDPro View Post
Anything Fiat touches turns to a piece of crap.
X2, love jeep but Fiat screwed them up. They will never get another penny of mine. One buy back and the replacement was worse and they made me eat it.
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Old 06-27-2020, 06:53 PM #22
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I have a Pro and I am very happy with its ride. It rides much better than my former FJ Cruiser, but I attribute that to the longer wheelbase. I don't find the Pro to be bouncy, like the FJ was.

As for its comparison to other 4 Runners, I test drove a 2012 Trail with KDSS, but that was years before buying my Pro, so I cannot really contrast the two.
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Old 06-27-2020, 07:18 PM #23
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Originally Posted by MAST4R View Post
But I have forgotten to notice, for example, coming off a curb. I realized that when I went down a sharp curb in a forum member's Eibach equipped 4R and it reminded me that curbs are a thing with a less stiff suspension.
What exact setup do you have that you do not notice driving off a curb? That you do notice with Eibach?
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Old 06-27-2020, 09:59 PM #24
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X2, love jeep but Fiat screwed them up. They will never get another penny of mine. One buy back and the replacement was worse and they made me eat it.
I'm trying to figure out what the problem is - too much whiz-bang technology or just shoddy craftsmanship. Like Toyota, they've had years to iron out the wrinkles, yet Jeep still has the same recurring issues.
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Old 06-27-2020, 10:52 PM #25
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The short answer is yes. As a product of growing up in the 80's I can see why one would be skeptical about how much (factory upgrade) shocks would improve ride quality. The old Rancho shocks for ford pickups in the 90's were not that much of an upgrade (if at all) in my opinion. But the upgraded shocks for the TRD Pro are definitely a noticeable improvement. Are they worth it for the price? I'd say maybe, but only for the reason it is totally under warranty compared to adding them yourself. I just went to King's adjustable extended travel and couldn't be more happy and more impressed. I'm completely sold on upgrading suspensions on offroad vehicles. Next time I think I will skip the TRD Pro unless I want the special color and just go to King suspension right out of the gate.
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Old 06-28-2020, 01:06 AM #26
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Quote:
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I'm trying to figure out what the problem is - too much whiz-bang technology or just shoddy craftsmanship. Like Toyota, they've had years to iron out the wrinkles, yet Jeep still has the same recurring issues.
I think a little bit of both honestly. I had a 2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon which is known for being more robust than the GC and I ran at just before 5 years and 84000 miles. It was starting to develop a lot of small issues that were going to become a pain in the ass, plus a lot of the overall build quality of it was pretty poor (for instance, I had removable roof panels that never were truly held on properly by all the attachment points due to a misfit bracket and really bad trim gaps in a few places). That also being the first year they put the 3.6L Pentastar in it (which was known for valve issues), freaked me out.

If you want to go 10 years on a vehicle, especially if you're going to run 15K+ miles a year (which I think you may based on a large commute and driving cross country), I would stick with the Lexus or the 4Runner. The TRD Pro suspension is great as a factory vehicle and a bunch of the trim upgrades (JBL stereo, auto lights, push button start) versus the non-Limiteds are a huge plus also. Yes, they are expensive, and you may do better for the money getting a ORP and doing upgrades, but if you want it all just in place from Toyota (and warrantied), it's not a bad way to go. Extended warranties are also really reasonable on these vehicles, I have mine covered for 6 years and about 100K miles for ~$1800. When Land Rover told me bumping my 4 year, 50K mile warranty up to 5 year, 65K would cost me nearly $3000, I just about lost it (and pretty much decided I'm coming out of the vehicle almost certainly at the 4 year mark which I had already been considering when I decided to take the plunge).
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Old 06-28-2020, 08:12 AM #27
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I'm trying to figure out what the problem is - too much whiz-bang technology or just shoddy craftsmanship. Like Toyota, they've had years to iron out the wrinkles, yet Jeep still has the same recurring issues.
You sound like you like the GC the most in looks and tech and I do too, but the long term reliability and bad dealerships is a very real concern especially compared to Toyota. Fiat still owns them.
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Old 06-28-2020, 09:06 AM #28
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The obvious choice would be a Highlander, Venza or an Avalon 4WD.

I would never buy anything from Chrysler. My grandfather was a “30 and out” guy and he had a great retirement from the original company so if anyone should be loyal it should be me. I just think their products have high numbers of warranty issues.

I dont drive my ‘20 4RP like a sports car because it is not a sports car. The only time I notice any bounciness is at lower speeds, 20-30 mph, over washboard like series of bumps where the rear suspension looses compliance and its not that big of a deal.

I dont notice the nosedive people post about probably because I’m no where near using the brakes to the limits of traction of the front tires.
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Old 06-28-2020, 10:11 AM #29
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The obvious choice would be a Highlander, Venza or an Avalon 4WD.

I would never buy anything from Chrysler. My grandfather was a “30 and out” guy and he had a great retirement from the original company so if anyone should be loyal it should be me. I just think their products have high numbers of warranty issues.

I dont drive my ‘20 4RP like a sports car because it is not a sports car. The only time I notice any bounciness is at lower speeds, 20-30 mph, over washboard like series of bumps where the rear suspension looses compliance and its not that big of a deal.

I dont notice the nosedive people post about probably because I’m no where near using the brakes to the limits of traction of the front tires.
None of those will handle anything worse than a speedbump. The Venza no longer exists and your inclusion of an Avalon must be a joke.

I noticed both the bounciness and the nosedive during the test drive of the Limited and I always drive like a granny on initial testdrives.
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Old 06-28-2020, 02:52 PM #30
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When I was considering a 5th gen, I drove all the models. The SR5s and TRD ORs rode about the same, the difference being TRD ORPs with KDSS. The limiteds and the TRD Pros also had their own unique behavior.

I wanted the rear locker so that eliminated the SR5s and Limiteds.

What it ultimately came down to for me is that I preferred KDSS for on-road, and the salesmen let me drive over a small course they had set-up to test suspension flex. After that I preferred the KDSS for off-road too. I can change the shocks myself if I am ever inclined to do so.

Everybody has their own priorities. My only advice would be to try all the models before deciding.
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