User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-01-2020, 09:34 PM #1
itr1275 itr1275 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 447
itr1275 has a spectacular aura about itr1275 has a spectacular aura about
itr1275 itr1275 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 447
itr1275 has a spectacular aura about itr1275 has a spectacular aura about
Crayz thought - Electronic Disconnecting Sway Bar

Out of curiosity has any one ever thought about, tried to or adapted the Rubicon Electronic Sway Bar Disconnect to a 4runner?

You can find them on ebay for a reasonable price (less than KDSS). Probably can shop around and get them for 1/2 that.
2007-18 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Electronic Disconnect Front Sway Bar #52121753AH | eBay

The innards of the assembly are pretty simple (Youtube). Two splines on each end of the sway bar pieces slide into a matching splined sleeve.The sleeve is moved to disengaged both sway bar ends by a fork activated by a plunger. The plunger is driven by a motor.

To disengage the motor releases the plunger and a return spring to pushes the fork, and sleeve, back into place when the splines align.

The motor can be worked around with some air or a screw, or rewired. There are kits for for air or screws. Rewiring seems a bit more work.

I suspect the splines in the middle are press fit on to the sway bar ends. It has to be two pieces otherwise they couldn't get the aluminum housing around it. It's unlikely to be welded to the splines because it would loose it heat treat and temper. So "I think" it might be removed with a bit of mild heat and a press.

The worst case is cut the Rubicon sway bar ends remove it from the housing. Then mill out the interior of the spline to slightly smaller than your sway bar. Heat the spline and press fit. Pinning it would help too.

The trick is to get a custom 2-piece sway bar that would fit the splines. Then heat and reattach the splines and install.

Yeah I know easier said than done, but someone somewhere must have at least thought about it.
itr1275 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-01-2020, 09:39 PM #2
SpeedyKevin's Avatar
SpeedyKevin SpeedyKevin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 975
SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold
SpeedyKevin SpeedyKevin is offline
Member
SpeedyKevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 975
SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold
Its an interesting idea but the reliability of the sway bar disconnect seems concerning. Several JL folks have complained about the system failing after a mud run.
__________________
2019 ORP - KDSS, Dobinsons C59-302/GS59-700 front and C59-725/IMS59-50701 rear, Dobinsons UCA, DuroBump/Daystar bumpstops, Sonoran Steel High Articulation tracbar, Marlin Crawler LCA frame brace, OGS Lo-Key Bumper w/ Warn VR EVO 10-S, RCI Sliders, fully armored with RCI/C4/Outgear Solutions skids, Falken Wildpeak M/T 285/70/17, LFD SS-Crossbars, ARB breather kit (Rear Diff and Locker), ScanGaugeII, Anytime Front/Backup Camera, onboard ARB Twin compressor MORRFlate kit, and DD SS3 Sport fogs
SpeedyKevin is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-01-2020, 09:54 PM #3
euser euser is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 213
euser will become famous soon enough euser will become famous soon enough
euser euser is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 213
euser will become famous soon enough euser will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyKevin View Post
Its an interesting idea but the reliability of the sway bar disconnect seems concerning. Several JL folks have complained about the system failing after a mud run.
Agreed, it’s one of the tons of Jeep features nowadays that don’t hold up to the intended use of a Jeep. I’m also a firm believer that any Jeep with more than 2 doors isn’t a Jeep, but I digress. I like the simplicity and reliability of KDSS.
euser is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-01-2020, 11:02 PM #4
itr1275 itr1275 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 447
itr1275 has a spectacular aura about itr1275 has a spectacular aura about
itr1275 itr1275 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 447
itr1275 has a spectacular aura about itr1275 has a spectacular aura about
It seems there are a lot of KDSS systems going belly up. And I'm not sure how much you get from the front. The rear seems to be the biggest babng for the buck.
itr1275 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-01-2020, 11:11 PM #5
Shadytype Shadytype is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 97
Shadytype is on a distinguished road
Shadytype Shadytype is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 97
Shadytype is on a distinguished road
Buddy has a dodge ram power wagon... the disconnect failed to reconnect after the 2 or 3rd use. He doesnt off road, but he was dragging his trailer across a field that was uneven.

Wasnt muddy. But it wasnt able to reconnect. When he got home he got it back in manually.

Said it was like driving a tip heavy boat on the way home. I told hin it was a dodge.

Never used it again.
Shadytype is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-01-2020, 11:24 PM #6
Jetboy's Avatar
Jetboy Jetboy is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 4,971
Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute
Jetboy Jetboy is online now
Senior Member
Jetboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 4,971
Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute
I'd rather have KDSS and get a custom sway set made with small diameter bars - same as the regular non-kdss sway bar set. Could be the best of both worlds.

Jeep actually tried to build a KDSS system - but couldn't ever make it work.
Jetboy is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-02-2020, 12:28 AM #7
SpeedyKevin's Avatar
SpeedyKevin SpeedyKevin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 975
SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold
SpeedyKevin SpeedyKevin is offline
Member
SpeedyKevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 975
SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold SpeedyKevin is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
I'd rather have KDSS and get a custom sway set made with small diameter bars - same as the regular non-kdss sway bar set. Could be the best of both worlds.

Jeep actually tried to build a KDSS system - but couldn't ever make it work.
This
__________________
2019 ORP - KDSS, Dobinsons C59-302/GS59-700 front and C59-725/IMS59-50701 rear, Dobinsons UCA, DuroBump/Daystar bumpstops, Sonoran Steel High Articulation tracbar, Marlin Crawler LCA frame brace, OGS Lo-Key Bumper w/ Warn VR EVO 10-S, RCI Sliders, fully armored with RCI/C4/Outgear Solutions skids, Falken Wildpeak M/T 285/70/17, LFD SS-Crossbars, ARB breather kit (Rear Diff and Locker), ScanGaugeII, Anytime Front/Backup Camera, onboard ARB Twin compressor MORRFlate kit, and DD SS3 Sport fogs
SpeedyKevin is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-02-2020, 10:43 AM #8
Jetboy's Avatar
Jetboy Jetboy is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 4,971
Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute
Jetboy Jetboy is online now
Senior Member
Jetboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 4,971
Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute
Also FWIW - the dog clutch mechanism in the jeep setup seems to have a ton of failures. It's just not a good design. If you wanted to modify an OEM swaybar setup, I'd go for one of the BMW active sway bars. It uses a hydraulic motor internally to actively twist the sway bar. But you could pretty easily re-design the system in a way that the hydraulics are a close circuit with a solenoid. When closed, no fluid flows and it's a fixed sway bar. When open - fluid can freely flow side to side and it's just like a disconnected sway bar. The big benefit is that it would be a lot more reliable design using a servo in a hydraulic hose rather than an electronic slide collar on a dog clutch that has to perfectly align before locking in to place.


The part I don't know about the BMW version is cycle speed and thermal capacity. - I'm guessing if you cycle it a lot rapidly it'll overheat, so you'd still need a speed or fluid flow rate sensitive closure to keep it from overheating, or see if you can use a combination of very light weight fluid and large diameter hoses and fittings to keep friction low.

Just my .02. That's how I'd do it.

Last edited by Jetboy; 07-02-2020 at 11:08 AM.
Jetboy is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-02-2020, 02:57 PM #9
itr1275 itr1275 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 447
itr1275 has a spectacular aura about itr1275 has a spectacular aura about
itr1275 itr1275 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 447
itr1275 has a spectacular aura about itr1275 has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
I'd go for one of the BMW active sway bars. It uses a hydraulic motor internally to actively twist the sway bar. But you could pretty easily re-design the system in a way that the hydraulics are a close circuit with a solenoid.

The part I don't know about the BMW version is cycle speed and thermal capacity. - I'm guessing if you cycle it a lot rapidly it'll overheat, so you'd still need a speed or fluid flow rate sensitive closure to keep it from overheating, or see if you can use a combination of very light weight fluid and large diameter hoses and fittings to keep friction low.

Just my .02. That's how I'd do it.
Generally people are saying that the Jeep design is crap for reliability. This would concur with the number of video of people fixing them. I suspect the offset from the actuator plunger to the sleeve can jam up. I might be a better design with a pivoting fork (like a clutch fork) rather than a sliding one.

I didn't know about BMW version and I can't find much info on it. Other than it twists the outside wheel down to level the car. We would need to reverse the sensor, no big deal but it should work.

How reliable are the Germans?
itr1275 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-02-2020, 03:20 PM #10
Jetboy's Avatar
Jetboy Jetboy is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 4,971
Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute
Jetboy Jetboy is online now
Senior Member
Jetboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 4,971
Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute Jetboy has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by itr1275 View Post
Generally people are saying that the Jeep design is crap for reliability. This would concur with the number of video of people fixing them. I suspect the offset from the actuator plunger to the sleeve can jam up. I might be a better design with a pivoting fork (like a clutch fork) rather than a sliding one.

I didn't know about BMW version and I can't find much info on it. Other than it twists the outside wheel down to level the car. We would need to reverse the sensor, no big deal but it should work.

How reliable are the Germans?
German one uses a pump and a lot of electronics to forcibly move it. I would not do any of that. I would simply use the mechanism on the sway bar with a closed circuit of fluid and a valve in the middle. When the valve is closed, the twisting mechanism internally is locked in place = fixed bar. When the valve is open, the twisting mechanism is free to wist without resistance and it becomes a disconnected sway bar.

I don't think the BMW system is particularly reliable. It's a BMW system... but the sway bar hydraulic part might be okay on its own. And they're dirt cheap.
Jetboy is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-02-2020, 03:31 PM #11
tjones2k9's Avatar
tjones2k9 tjones2k9 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 16
tjones2k9 is on a distinguished road
tjones2k9 tjones2k9 is offline
Junior Member
tjones2k9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 16
tjones2k9 is on a distinguished road
I wonder if there would be any way to prevent vertical movement if your mechanism was at the link, instead of on the sway bar shaft. I'm thinking like a locked-up ball screw, but could then be freed up and allow vertical travel? If that makes sense..

Not an electronic solution, but what about installing something like the Currie antirock?
__________________
2012 Limited. Spacers on totally shot XREAS.
tjones2k9 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-02-2020, 04:53 PM #12
AZ Craig AZ Craig is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 608
AZ Craig is a jewel in the rough AZ Craig is a jewel in the rough AZ Craig is a jewel in the rough
AZ Craig AZ Craig is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 608
AZ Craig is a jewel in the rough AZ Craig is a jewel in the rough AZ Craig is a jewel in the rough
Interesting to hear folks complain about the Rubicon disconnect to me. I used mine in my 2012 JKU pretty much any time I was offroad (or even on dirt roads quite frankly to minimize bump steer if I was keeping below about 30 mph), and I never had any issues getting it to disconnect and reconnect in 84000 miles.

Oh well... Maybe the JL is not as reliable?
__________________
2016 Black Trail Premium KDSS - Traded
2020 Army Green TRD Pro: 265/70R17 Goodyear Duratrac RT, Eibach TRD Pro Lift-Kit Springs, Victory 4x4 Blitz Al Sliders, RCI TRD Pro Integration Al Skid Plate Set, RCI Gas Tank Al Skid Plate, Front Runner 3/4 Slimline Roof Rack (w/1.4m Easy-Out Awning and Quick Release Kit), Morimoto XB Taillights, Canvasback Cargo Liner, more to come...
2023 Yacht Blue Kia EV6 GT
AZ Craig is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-02-2020, 05:40 PM #13
DallasTRDPro's Avatar
DallasTRDPro DallasTRDPro is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 727
DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light
DallasTRDPro DallasTRDPro is offline
Member
DallasTRDPro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 727
DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light
Why not just get out and disconnect the swaybar yourself like real Jeeps used to do? No need to add a faulty part to a reliable vehicle.
DallasTRDPro is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-02-2020, 07:01 PM #14
Jeff_DML Jeff_DML is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: San Diego
Posts: 161
Jeff_DML will become famous soon enough
Jeff_DML Jeff_DML is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: San Diego
Posts: 161
Jeff_DML will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasTRDPro View Post
Why not just get out and disconnect the swaybar yourself like real Jeeps used to do? No need to add a faulty part to a reliable vehicle.
if you disconnect the stock one I guess it moves around and can destroy your CV boots.

There has been some specially made endlinks that all you to disconnect on the fly but I guess they are noisy when disconnected so they are not that popular.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

this post claims that disconnecting the swaybar for IFS doesnt do much anyhow

https://www.toyota-4runner.org/1358631-post15.html
__________________
2018 SR5P+3rd row, 285 KO2, 5100+Dobinsons 300/505
Jeff_DML is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-02-2020, 07:25 PM #15
themaestro's Avatar
themaestro themaestro is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 96
themaestro will become famous soon enough
themaestro themaestro is offline
Member
themaestro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 96
themaestro will become famous soon enough
Here's an idea.

Replace the KDSS cylinders with magnaride shocks. Yeah, the ones GM makes that are able to vary their compression and rebound on the fly thousands of times a second.

As the computer senses speed and roll, they can stiffen or loosen the sway bar as needed to either provide roll stiffness or articulation. And be variable for any speed or road condition.

On the freeway or on a windy road? The shocks are stiff to provide a stiff sway bar.

Going slow and need max articulation? The shocks go full soft to allow more movement.

I'm not sure what the actual specs are on those magnaride shocks, but its always been an idea of mine.
themaestro is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bar , heat , motor , splines , sway

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Front sway bar - disconnecting one side? thezentree 3rd gen T4Rs 0 08-06-2019 07:39 PM
What do you do with sway bar after disconnecting end link? mtbtim 3rd gen T4Rs 13 02-09-2017 11:57 AM
4th Gen Disconnecting Sway Bar Set-Up BlackWorksInc 4th Gen T4Rs 45 03-26-2016 12:43 AM
Disconnecting sway bars Lewis&Clark 4th Gen T4Rs 14 04-09-2015 01:13 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:27 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
***This site is an unofficial Toyota site, and is not officially endorsed, supported, authorized by or affiliated with Toyota. All company, product, or service names references in this web site are used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Toyota name, marks, designs and logos, as well as Toyota model names, are registered trademarks of Toyota Motor Corporation***Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
Copyright © 2020