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Old 07-14-2020, 08:05 PM #91
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Originally Posted by I4CUTigers View Post
You bought a 4runner because it’s as close to bullet proof as they come, it can be driven comfortably Monday - Friday, you can tow a reasonable amount or load up a fair amount of stuff and go, and when you sell it, it will hold its value better than any other brand.
I wont speak for others but, I bought it because the choices were basically a 4Runner and a Wrangler, and the 4Runner was the better choice of two due to the cargo space and ride quality/comfort, mainly, while still being able to do legit trails in factory condition. I have zero loyalty to any brand that was giving me an actual choice of BoF SUV with legit off road creds at a reasonable price point. Frankly, the options for that market are/were shit. Thank god there's another player in it now.
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Old 07-14-2020, 08:20 PM #92
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Just noticed the swing-out tailgate/door. I would tire of that, I think.
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Old 07-14-2020, 08:20 PM #93
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The other issue for me personally is that the interior is small and with a kid - camping requires a lot more crap. Also the tow capacity is pretty low and the brakes must be small if it fits 16" wheels. I do frequently tow a camp trailer and am looking at upgrading to a slightly larger one that would be over the limit of a 3500lb tow capacity. Even most pop top offroad campers exceed that weight. I suspect with the v6 ecoboost and 10 speed it actually tows much better than the 4R. Not sure why the weight rating is so low unless it's a cooling capacity issue.

I also haven't seen mpg numbers yet. But I'd bet they're better than the 4R.
Interior space is marginally better than the Wrangler, but the 4Runner still wins. This is one of the reasons I switched to my 4Runner from a JKU in 2016 and am happy I did not wait for the Bronco (versus getting my 2020 Pro) since I thought it was going to end up on the small side.

The towing is also disappointing. I noticed this also and was surprised. Perhaps hitch design plays into things also? The Ecoboost engine should be good for towing at least 5000 pounds I would think.

I'm actually really considering a Defender in 2 or 3 years (probably to replace my Disco Sport before it comes off warranty) once Land Rover works out some of the initial growing pains as the I6 turbo is good to tow over 8000 pounds and the interior space is very close to a 4Runner.

They are pricey vehicles though.
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Old 07-14-2020, 09:08 PM #94
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There is no comparison. The two vehicles have vast differences. But they are competing for market share - as they should. 4runner folks love their 4runners.
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Old 07-14-2020, 09:10 PM #95
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I need to clear the home projects from my plate and get to work on the body restoration of my ‘73 Bronco.
Now that's a Bronco!
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Old 07-14-2020, 10:46 PM #96
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Watching the whole thing yesterday with its introduction. I will say I like it, but like it in the way I like a Jeep Rubicon or the old LR Defender, awesome, cool to have, but for me it would be like a second or third car. The 4R fills that everyday driver/highway cruiser thing quite well, lol.

But at that, when the 4R 6th gen comes around I by then will be looking at getting a second car, well, I love my current 4R so much I plan on keeping it, and cannot see not jumping into a 6th gen.
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Old 07-14-2020, 11:21 PM #97
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I wont speak for others but, I bought it because the choices were basically a 4Runner and a Wrangler, and the 4Runner was the better choice of two due to the cargo space and ride quality/comfort, mainly, while still being able to do legit trails in factory condition. I have zero loyalty to any brand that was giving me an actual choice of BoF SUV with legit off road creds at a reasonable price point. Frankly, the options for that market are/were shit. Thank god there's another player in it now.
So you bought it because it drivable Monday thru Friday, the fact you can load it up with stuff, and still have a highly capable off roader?

That’s exactly what I was pointing out. The market is what it is. Bronco’s entry is closer to the wrangler than the 4runner. I don’t think it sways the decision making process for most eventual 4R buyers who are valuing reliability, comfort, cargo, daily Drivability, and while retaining trail worthiness (which is most people who end up with one).

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Old 07-15-2020, 09:56 AM #98
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Old 07-15-2020, 10:59 AM #99
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I think the 4Runner still is they best Overlander. 1650 lbs of payload capacity set it apart from Wrangler 4 door 875 and even the new Bronco 4 door at 1350, which is the same as a 200 series Landcruiser. And of course space inside. I think the payload in the new Defender is like 2100 lbs which is impressive but I just cannot embrace a unibody vehicle for off road 🙄
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Old 07-15-2020, 01:59 PM #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I4CUTigers View Post
So you bought it because it drivable Monday thru Friday, the fact you can load it up with stuff, and still have a highly capable off roader?

That’s exactly what I was pointing out. The market is what it is. Bronco’s entry is closer to the wrangler than the 4runner. I don’t think it sways the decision making process for most eventual 4R buyers who are valuing reliability, comfort, cargo, daily Drivability, and while retaining trail worthiness (which is most people who end up with one).
Assuming we leave out the part about reliability and resale, sure, close enough for government work at least, and lets be clear, being more comfortable than a Wrangler is a pretty damn low bar to clear.

I couldn't really care less about those other two factors.

My only point, really, is that if you're looking for something that does those three things, you have like, one option, so there's not a whole lot of choice there. If I hop on a yellow life boat when I'm drowning, it doesn't mean I like yellow, it just means I didn't want to drown.

If the Bronco had existed when i was looking, and has slightly better cargo room and less of a coffin feel than the Wrangler, it would have been the #1 choice by a mile for me.
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Old 07-15-2020, 02:04 PM #101
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I'm actually really considering a Defender in 2 or 3 years (probably to replace my Disco Sport before it comes off warranty) once Land Rover works out some of the initial growing pains as the I6 turbo is good to tow over 8000 pounds and the interior space is very close to a 4Runner.

They are pricey vehicles though.
I really dig those, and getting a chance to crawl all around one at the auto show just increased that. I can afford one now, but I just cant justify the MASSIVE price tag to get it the way I'd want it. It's like 4 clicks to go from ~$49k to $70k.
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Old 07-15-2020, 02:14 PM #102
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I really dig those, and getting a chance to crawl all around one at the auto show just increased that. I can afford one now, but I just cant justify the MASSIVE price tag to get it the way I'd want it. It's like 4 clicks to go from ~$49k to $70k.
That reminds me - a director where I worked years ago mentioned that the Cayenne her boss drove was $91k. I did a little research, and the starting price at the time was $38k. Stupid thing had a wheel/tire upgrade option alone that was around $25k, IIRC. From what I could gather, he had $50k+ in optional equipment.
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Old 07-15-2020, 07:34 PM #103
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I really dig those, and getting a chance to crawl all around one at the auto show just increased that. I can afford one now, but I just cant justify the MASSIVE price tag to get it the way I'd want it. It's like 4 clicks to go from ~$49k to $70k.
Yeah, I got to play around with a First Edition at my local Land Rover dealer that had just sold for $86K with a $10K markup from it's $76K sticker (and they were shipping it to Washington from Arizona). I could not drive it, but did fire it up and play with the infotainment and camera systems. Interface was VASTLY improved over the current JLR systems (which are honestly an over complicated mess despite looking nice).

From what I can tell with the I6 you could probably get into a pretty nice HSE in the high $60K range. They are definitely in a different price range than 4Runners and probably cannot really be directly compared. Pushing towards Land Cruiser money.

I think once the initial hysteria wears off you'll be able to get them around around 5% off MSRP with a custom order. Apparently they are 9 months lead time right now though with all of the orders already taken on them, so you're well into the 2021 model year (2020 is going to be EXTREMELY abbreviated though).
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Old 07-15-2020, 07:38 PM #104
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That reminds me - a director where I worked years ago mentioned that the Cayenne her boss drove was $91k. I did a little research, and the starting price at the time was $38k. Stupid thing had a wheel/tire upgrade option alone that was around $25k, IIRC. From what I could gather, he had $50k+ in optional equipment.
Porsche option lists and trim levels are NOTORIOUSLY insane, plus the base cars are de-contented in an artificial way to keep the entry prices down (but there are really no entry level cars out there).

When I was shopping for a compact luxury SUV to replace my Golf R I seriously looked at a Macan. They start at about $50K, but realistically you are not going to want one the way they come equipped for less than around $60K. If you want to move into the bigger engine, try $70K. And it just goes from there... Beautiful cars, but you definitely pay the "Porsche tax." Lots of crazy stand alone custom order options also with several thousand dollar price tags.
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Old 07-16-2020, 11:49 PM #105
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I sold a full size '92 Eddie Bauer after I bought the 4Runner. I loved it, but couldn't justify both it and the 4Runner. Wish I had never sold it though because was a beauty of a classic.
That said, Ford killed the Bronco bringing it back, as in muerte, D-E-D dead. Your choice of a 2.7L V6 or 2.3L 4cyl... no V8 option, no diesel option, your only option is tiny turbocharged. Sure you may pull some market back, but the purists who had the old ones aren't going to accept anything less than a 302. If the 5.0L & 10spd is an option in the F150, it should be an option in the Bronco. Until then, it's just a marketing ploy to sell some half-ass crossover with a rebooted name.
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