For me, this is indicative of a much bigger problem with Toyota. They either no longer care or have lost touch with the passionate/fun side of the business. Never have I wanted anything other than a Toyota as a daily driver......until recently that is. But because of the decisions they've made the last decade or so with their vehicles, I no longer feel the same about them the way I used to. I still love my 4Runner (with all it's short comings) but it may be my last Toyota for awhile. Just too many other good options out there from companies that actually care and are actively "trying" to build interesting/cool/fun/quality/loyal to the brand vehicles.

Sorry for the rant, but it seemed like it was thread appropriate.

Here is a pet peeve of mine - Toyota won't tell us what the water fording depth is for a 4runner. Any comparable SUV specs it, including the Grand Cherokee, the FJ did, but Toyota won't for the 4runner.

Their attitude is reminding me of older Detroit, they will tell is what we want and like, but we can't tell them.

And, calling Toyota HQ is like living in a Kafka story.

Effing ridiculous.

You are 100% correct and those who don't get how Toyota has made the 4 runner an SUV that will NEVER be the fastest or the coolest, or the hippest, or the 1 with the most features or the most powerful can simply not buy 1. For those of us who understand that the 4 runner is by far the most reliable and dependable SUV on the market in any category will continue to purchase them. It is the one brand out there that I never lease but actually purchase because I know the resale value is extremely high. The Bronco like the H2 will be very popular especially at your local malls but just like the H2 fad it will fade and the Wrangler and 4 runner will be last 2 standing in 5 to 8 years from now. Ford makes expensive crap that doesn't last over time and/or miles.

“Their attitude is reminding me of older Detroit, they will tell us what we want and like, but we can't tell them.“. EXACTLY and we all know where this will go. They DO NOT listen to their customers, obviously both Jeep and Ford are listening and asking questions of enthusiasts. My Pro will probably be my last Toyota as well. I will buy their efficient and reliable little rice burners like my Corolla as my DD but unless they seriously step up I have probably bought my last 4X4 from them.

There are really only two things that give me a bit of hope right now.

1. The fact that they brought back the Supra, look committed to continuous improvement on it, and it is generally considered a great vehicle (I'd love to pick a used one up down the road as a third car perhaps). Yes, it's largely a BMW, but they still put the R&D resources into having anything period.
2. They are bringing the GR hot hatch Corolla into the US in the next year or so. This is a move unlike anything Toyota has done in awhile and really interesting that they're going to go up against the likes of VW and Honda in this space.

I completely agree that the company's products largely became victims of focus group engineering and have very little soul. That's honestly one of the things I do dig about the TRD Pro truck models is that at least they're having some fun (especially with the special colors, albeit lunar rock sucks).

They really need to put a v8 back in a 4runner. Offer a lower cost, lower option, super basic 4runner with a v8 that you can option up should you so wish. Lots of options. A la carte that shit. Let people pick.

I would buy that over and over and over until I die.

I will take the dinosaur over the cutting edge stuff like the POS Ford Edge I had.

At that, not sure what much dinosaur there is with the 4r, other than some trinkets and gadgets. Auto headlights are the big concern?

It is actually this mindset that makes me love my 4runner and prompted me to get a 2019 before they added more content in 2020. This shows how different we all are but I am one of the luddites who bought a brand new jeep wrangler in 2008 with VINYL seats, manual transmission, manual windows, manual locks, no cruise control. The cost? 19k without a trade in. I realize my style is not in the majority but the 4runner was the most analog SUV left and that is some of what drew me to it. My only wishes from the factory, (totally not going to happen), would be a small displacement diesel and a manual transmission. Keep the fancy electronics, head units, pushbutton start, adaptive cruise control, lane change, electric transfer case stuff out or optional.

I would point out that each of those systems while not much individually do add up to a higher overall vehicle cost. Besides inflation etc, there is a reason my JK Wrangler was bought for under 20k and the cheapest Wrangler today is 10k more.

TLDR: Sell me a stripped down 70 series and add all the stuff you want to a 4Runner

I don't think you will ever see a V8 in an SUV again. Even the explorer's 4 banger puts out more HP than some of the old V8's. America is the last HP country, everything else is all about fuel economy. Car companies are cutting cost by designing for a global market.

I would rather Toyota bring back the FJ to compete with the Bronco and leave the 4 runner alone. I think the 4Runner is the only 3rd row SUV that doesn't look like a soccer mom car, which makes my wife happy!

I think Thai looked that up a year ago or so, and it's something like 24", IIRC.

Sadly, I know you're right.

Maybe it's time for me to pull the trigger on that hellcat I've been eyeballing.

This. While I agree the 4Runner needs an update, it is no longer postured to compete with the Bronco and Wrangler. An updated FJ Cruiser would be Toyota's answer to those vehicles if the market proves to be there for it.

The dinosaurs will be these other vehicles sitting on used car lots or in someone’s driveway 10 years from now. The consumers/owners will have to decide if fixing something that has greatly deprecated just may end up costing them thousands of dollars to fix out of warranty for transmission, engine, electrical or computer problems.

This this this!

Not changing a design is not alway a good thing. Especially, when your competition can change faster to industry trends. Look at Harley Davidson. Their sales are tanking while other brands, who saw the writing on the wall for the cruiser market, came out with bikes for the new upcoming generation of riders and are doing ok in a very tough motorcycle market right now.

Toyota resale value is mainly due to their reliability. If it came out that all 5th Gen 4Runners were prone to some engine mechanical issue that materialized after the warranty expired that Toyota would not cover I guarantee you the resale values would tank. You couldn’t give away a 4Runner.


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