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Old 07-16-2020, 04:29 PM #16
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Originally Posted by gsla72 View Post
^ Nissan Frontier - I think we're on year 16 there.

All joking aside, I think the general frustration comes from the fact that we're just now seeing basic creature comforts slip into the T4R platform. I couldn't care less about lane keep, etc but LED headlights and a relatively up to date entertainment stack should have been sorted out in the 2014 refresh...
Not sure about the LEDs (they are coming next year), but HIDs would have appropriate in 2014 - and would have been fine until the next model.
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Old 07-16-2020, 04:37 PM #17
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^ Nissan Frontier - I think we're on year 16 there.
Frontier is being refreshed by the end of the year for the 2021 year model. That leaves the following dinosaurs: Toyota Land Cruiser, Toyota Tundra, Toyota Sequoia, and Toyota 4Runner. See a pattern there? Trucks don't seem to be a high priority for Toyota.
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Old 07-16-2020, 04:44 PM #18
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This is why I guess?
That looks good - until you look at something like Jeep Wrangler sales. If we go back to say 2005 - Toyota sold 103k 4Runners. Jeep sold 79K wranglers. Flash forward - Jeeps selling 250k wranglers and Toyota's only moving around 140k 4Runners.

If Toyota had put much effort into the 4Runner - it's very possible it could be selling more like 250k per year not 140k.


I'm going to make a prediction - 4Runner sales fall below 100k next year.
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Old 07-16-2020, 04:48 PM #19
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I've had all toyota vehicles for 15 years. My issue isn't so much the dated product, but the lack of any effort in any way to make it better. That isn't historically what Toyota was doing. The 4Runner has received a complete generational update every 7 years historically. Even the FJ40 had regular and meaningful updates to the engine, the transmission, the axles, the brakes, etc. The very long production run without updates is something new. This is not classic Toyota in any way. The closest thing I know if is the 7x series. Even the 7x series has regular updates and a more modern engine and transmission lineup. The 4Runner is little more a body update on a 2003 model and a downgrade in drivetrain. It's been 17 years to this point and looking like another 3-5 more before anything gets a refresh.

And Toyota is updated it's products in other markets. The Prado and Hilux are getting new and significantly more powerful engines this year. It's basically just our market that isn't getting updated even if they keep the same platform.

If it makes me fickle - so be it. I'm fickle. But to be fair - the very long production cycle isn't typical of Toyota. I can't think of any model that has been essentially unchanged for what's looking like 15 years.
This.

I used to think Toyota just wanted to focus on reliability but now...I feel like they are just lazy. The cruise control stick is the same one from my 95 camry....

I owned 3 camrys (different generations) before this and hell even they had more updates added to each generation than the 4runner has lol. Also, each made it over 250k miles before I sold them!
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Old 07-16-2020, 04:54 PM #20
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I've had all toyota vehicles for 15 years. My issue isn't so much the dated product, but the lack of any effort in any way to make it better. That isn't historically what Toyota was doing. The 4Runner has received a complete generational update every 7 years historically. Even the FJ40 had regular and meaningful updates to the engine, the transmission, the axles, the brakes, etc. The very long production run without updates is something new. This is not classic Toyota in any way. The closest thing I know if is the 7x series. Even the 7x series has regular updates and a more modern engine and transmission lineup. The 4Runner is little more a body update on a 2003 model and a downgrade in drivetrain. It's been 17 years to this point and looking like another 3-5 more before anything gets a refresh.

And Toyota is updated it's products in other markets. The Prado and Hilux are getting new and significantly more powerful engines this year. It's basically just our market that isn't getting updated even if they keep the same platform.

If it makes me fickle - so be it. I'm fickle. But to be fair - the very long production cycle isn't typical of Toyota. I can't think of any model that has been essentially unchanged for what's looking like 15 years.
I think what we're seeing is that Toyota isn't sure whether to completely back out of the BOF SUV market in the US, just like almost everyone already has done and focus on crossovers.

The continued popularity of the Wrangler and the buzz around the male sex toy Bronco probably has made someone at corporate notice--but the FJ Cruiser wasn't as popular as they wanted.

Also helps that we are currently under an administration that doesn't give a damn about industry gas mileage standards and even Toyota has finally gotten sick of the CARB game and moved out of this hellscape of a state.
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Old 07-16-2020, 04:57 PM #21
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I think what we're seeing is that Toyota isn't sure whether to completely back out of the BOF SUV market in the US, just like almost everyone already has done and focus on crossovers.

The continued popularity of the Wrangler and the buzz around the male sex toy Bronco probably has made someone at corporate notice--but the FJ Cruiser wasn't as popular as they wanted.

Also helps that we are currently under an administration that doesn't give a damn about industry gas mileage standards and even Toyota has finally gotten sick of the CARB game and moved out of this hellscape of a state.
Next generation Tacomas/4runners are supposed to be sharing the same platform right? Hopefully the sales of the next-gen will be decent enough to persuade Toyota to stay in the American BOF market.
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Old 07-16-2020, 05:09 PM #22
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The FJ Cruiser was just a shortened version of the 4Runner. Not much thought put into its design. Horrible blind spots and back doors that won't open if the front ones aren't opened first. Not sure they are more prone to flipping than 4runners, but that Black Bear Pass video of one flipping was disturbing.
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Old 07-16-2020, 05:17 PM #23
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Next generation Tacomas/4runners are supposed to be sharing the same platform right? Hopefully the sales of the next-gen will be decent enough to persuade Toyota to stay in the American BOF market.
I used to travel to SE Asia and Japan a lot.

The Hilux based Fortuner is TRASH compared to the updated Prado.
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Old 07-16-2020, 06:01 PM #24
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The FJ Cruiser was just a shortened version of the 4Runner. Not much thought put into its design. Horrible blind spots and back doors that won't open if the front ones aren't opened first. Not sure they are more prone to flipping than 4runners, but that Black Bear Pass video of one flipping was disturbing.
Exactly. There was nothing innovative about it, no special offroad features that the 4Runner didn't have etc. It was however a lot smaller, a lot more cramped, rode like ass due to the short wheelbase etc. At the end of the day, no one bought many of them anyway despite their professed desire for a "hard core" offroader from Toyota and it was left to die when the 150 based 4Runner was refreshed.

I never understood the love for that thing but to each their own.
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Old 07-16-2020, 06:01 PM #25
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Supposedly all BOF will be a single platform. So everything from Tunda, LC300, Tacoma, 4R etc. will all share a modular platform. That *should* mean you can mix and match parts like drive trains across any or all of them. How that will work to share over such a wide range of vehicles will be interesting to see. Not sure when we'll actually see on though. I thought we'd see the next Tundra and LC300 by now.
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Old 07-16-2020, 06:22 PM #26
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The way I see it is, people who are in it for the glam will jump on the Bronco/Jeep wagon and only time will tell how it works out for them in terms of it being a reliable vehicle (we already know the Jeep isn't, with extremely poor reliability and safety ratings). People who want a known-reliable platform that is tried and true over literally decades will stick with Toyota despite lacking some of the more modern features of other vehicles.
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Old 07-16-2020, 06:37 PM #27
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Toyota's motto, " Lets go places" means exactly that. Toyota mechanical horse will get you there and back, the rest of the gizmos etc will do you no good if you are stranded. Toyota doesn't care, it's an extremely profitable company. It will change when it starts loosing market share to other manufacturers.
Almost all of the world's car manufacturers want the Toyota's secret of building reliable vehicles that out sell other similar models with better gizmos and performance.
The Toyota Group is currently on top of the market, registering the best year to date performance in the Top 10 and after managing to somewhat “contain” the losses compared to the followers in the Covid-19 crisis. Indeed, Toyota Group in May 2020 was reaching 12.8% market share.
4runner sales are increasing annually in fact the 5th Gen is by far the best selling model.
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Old 07-16-2020, 06:38 PM #28
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Quote:
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Exactly. There was nothing innovative about it, no special offroad features that the 4Runner didn't have etc. It was however a lot smaller, a lot more cramped, rode like ass due to the short wheelbase etc. At the end of the day, no one bought many of them anyway despite their professed desire for a "hard core" offroader from Toyota and it was left to die when the 150 based 4Runner was refreshed.

I never understood the love for that thing but to each their own.
Plus, it looks like a Wrangler + VW Bug cross. Not the sexiest look.

It's grown on me over the years, but still not a good looking vehicle.
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Old 07-16-2020, 06:46 PM #29
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Some responses:

I think it would be nice to be able to put 33" or 34" tires without any fender cutting or BMCs, have decent power, have more than 5 gears, have good braking, and for god sakes decent lighting inside and out. Why do we need to buy a Sprint Booster, can't they program the accelerator a little better???

Putting the GX engine and transmission in the 4Runner would be a good start. How about LED lighting? How about an optional front locking diff?

A front locker would be awesome from the factory

My issue isn't so much the dated product, but the lack of any effort in any way to make it better

LED headlights and a relatively up to date entertainment stack

HIDs would have appropriate in 2014 - and would have been fine until the next model

The cruise control stick is the same one from my 95 camry





My input? Look at wishes/complaints from competitive vehicle forums.
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Old 07-16-2020, 07:04 PM #30
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Some responses:

I think it would be nice to be able to put 33" or 34" tires without any fender cutting or BMCs, have decent power, have more than 5 gears, have good braking, and for god sakes decent lighting inside and out. Why do we need to buy a Sprint Booster, can't they program the accelerator a little better???

Putting the GX engine and transmission in the 4Runner would be a good start. How about LED lighting? How about an optional front locking diff?

A front locker would be awesome from the factory

My issue isn't so much the dated product, but the lack of any effort in any way to make it better

LED headlights and a relatively up to date entertainment stack

HIDs would have appropriate in 2014 - and would have been fine until the next model

The cruise control stick is the same one from my 95 camry





My input? Look at wishes/complaints from competitive vehicle forums.
Pretty much this. There's no reason not to have the GX engine, 6AT, and front locker. I'm guessing it'd be a direct bolt in with little to no engineering effort on their part.

I'm pretty sure that they could have taken a little effort and re-engineered the body mount after everyone started chopping them with the FJ Cruiser--it was clear that people wanted to put bigger tires on this thing.

In reality they did yet another platform engineering exercise with the 4th gen, the FJ Cruiser, and the 2ng gen Prado/GX and called it a day.
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