Toyota is more than capable of making a very reliable vehicle with all of the latest amenities and features. They do this in their cars and crossovers. They're just lazy when it comes to their trucks, and there's no excusing it. We're finally getting LED's on the 2021 model year on a vehicle that can cost up to 50k. How does one excuse that?? Especially knowing the benefits of LED's and modern lighting.

I still liked the 4runner enough to throw my hard earned money on a 2020.

Having a modern vehicle doesn't automatically have to = unreliable junk if it is engineered and built properly which we know Toyota is perfectly capable of.

Im on that reliability camp, i love the finer things in life forsure but when it comes to luxury and tech in cars i have no interest in repairing it or having it always taken to a dealer for a scan.
My three Toyota (92 Previa, 03 Matrix and 08 T4R Sport) were and are all rock solid.

Yeah, I don't recall ever being able to option-up any Toyota. It's just not the production/sales model they choose to use. Never bothered me, personally.

I'm with Mule. Tiny little Japanese hands produce superior vehicles. I can go without any of the tech as long as I can hop in it and think nothing of driving 9 hours to Bangor and then back the next day. I do all my own work on vehicles so the reliability of this 4Runner has been by far its best asset. Saves me time, saves me money, gives me peace of mind. Only thing in 140K that went bad was that damn NSS, and I still think it bound up simply from not being driven enough.

The point was that you could have configured a Carrera 991.2 base model with a manual transmission and have it delivered to you in 2-3 months at BELOW the MSRP of 90-92 grand with ZERO options... and your dealer and Porsche would have been happy to build and sell it to you whereas if you wanted a base FJ Cruiser when they launched in 2007 you realized that they only made a handful to advertise a much lower MSRP than nearly all the ones making it to dealerships were selling for like 10 grand more.

It's the same dishonesty as when they launched the 5th gen and sold a few 4cylinder RWD models so they could claim an MSRP of 24999!!! when my Trail was like 38k.

Toyota is also notorious for bundling all the good 4WD stuff with the most expensive trim packages. The SR5 should have all the 4WD add-on you can get on the Off Road or PRO.

And even then they can't get it 100% correct.

Limited is the only option that comes with real leather seats and a Torsen TC, but no rear locker.

Every single trim level they make has something missing, which misses the mark just enough to still pass.

Yeah, I'm not going to critique Porsche or Toyota or whomever for their sales methods. I think every company tries for the thing that will make them the most money, while attracting and retaining the most customers. It's different with them all, I imagine. I would suck at it - too many variables and too much risk. In my view, if they're using really lousy tactics, or I'm bothered by what I see as dishonesty, and those things make me not want to buy from them, then I won't. If enough people do that, maybe they change something.

As I mentioned earlier, I don't recall Toyota ever doing things much differently than they do today, sales-wise (with the possible exception of different radio choices). Their cars were always equipped mostly based on trim levels and so forth. DLX came with this and that, SR5 came with those things plus a few other things, LE was everything in a lot of cases - but maybe you couldn't get a Camry LE or XLE with a manual transmission, and on and on. I've always looked at it as simply their way of doing business. I don't ever recall being able to order/configure a Toyota from an options list. The closest I ever came to that was on my 1984 Celica GTS, but that was simply, "Here's a listing of the cars destined for our dealership" kind of thing. I just picked the one that was equipped how I wanted it. (That was my most memorable purchase, by the way, because the salesman would call to tell me when it got on the boat, then it'll be in San Francisco tomorrow, it landed, it's on the transport, etc.)

As for the "loss leader" pricing, I think they're not the only ones to have ever done that. I'm sure it goes on elsewhere. "Starting at $XX,XXX" means whatever the lowest-equipped model comes with. I think the lowest-priced Porsche today is somewhere around $60k, so they're playing on two different levels, really.

this pretty much sums up my thought. I think the Jeep is a fun vehicle and not really ideal as a daily driver. The 4runner can be fun though not as fun but definitely good for daily driving. Jeep has more extensibility and tons of aftermarket where the 4runner lags behind.

It’s a Japanese thing. Honda and Acura do it too. They offer packages. American vehicles are the ones where you can pick through several pages of single options.

Even the domestics seem to be moving away from this model. Try to spec out a Raptor - You'll quickly find the mid $50k starting price shift up to $70k if you want a few choice items. Everything comes bundled in a $3-$5k option group.

Gone are the days of COPO or similar where you can snag the handful of things that were of value to you a-la-carte.

I read time and again how other countries get all the cooler/better vehicles and the USA is basically left with the dregs. Given how the rest of the world views us now, thanks to YouKnowWho, I guess we’re the “shithole” country now

Interestingly enough i came across these two articles on MotorBiscuit written by the same person


Three Reasons Not to Buy the 2020 Toyota 4Runner

and under that article

Buying a 2018 Jeep Wrangler Isn't a Bad Idea

LMAO

Agreed, I'm not sure where these talking points are even coming from. I don't know of any automakers that are still offering anything more than simple alterations within their preset packages. I considered a Grand Cherokee when they started making them with a Diesel. I wanted a comfortable workhorse SUV that I could take camping, etc, and had gobs of power. Well, the Diesel motor isn't an option without the luxury package with all the technology BS for an extra $6K, and even then it had to be oredered that way because all the dealer stock was the "Overland" package which was another 4-5K more on top of that. This sounds like a pointless argument to me. If Wranglers were built like Toyota's and had all the extra options available to choose from, they would be priced like Land Rovers...

It's not news. The 4runner does a bunch of stuff "good enough".

I looked a the:

Wrangler/Gladiator - hated the boxy design and awkward doors. Not to mention they don't drive straight ever.

Looked at the Colorado, but wasn't quite convinced when it came to writing a check.

Tacoma is always good, but expensive for what you get.

F-150 is a great driving vehicle but way too big for my area.

Cherokee Trail Hawk - Garbage.

In the end the 4runner was the best all around choice. Not as nice to drive as the F-150 or offroad capable as the "real" jeeps nor as featured as the Colorado nor useful as the Tacoma. But it's a known quantity. So I'm one of they guys that buys "good enough" at a lot of things.

LOL - COPO 4Runner.