07-16-2020, 11:13 PM
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#46
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Toyota is more than capable of making a very reliable vehicle with all of the latest amenities and features. They do this in their cars and crossovers. They're just lazy when it comes to their trucks, and there's no excusing it. We're finally getting LED's on the 2021 model year on a vehicle that can cost up to 50k. How does one excuse that?? Especially knowing the benefits of LED's and modern lighting.
I still liked the 4runner enough to throw my hard earned money on a 2020.
Having a modern vehicle doesn't automatically have to = unreliable junk if it is engineered and built properly which we know Toyota is perfectly capable of.
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2020 Midnight Black Metallic 4runner Offroad premium
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07-16-2020, 11:17 PM
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#47
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Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 104
Real Name: Ken
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Im on that reliability camp, i love the finer things in life forsure but when it comes to luxury and tech in cars i have no interest in repairing it or having it always taken to a dealer for a scan.
My three Toyota (92 Previa, 03 Matrix and 08 T4R Sport) were and are all rock solid.
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07-17-2020, 05:04 AM
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#48
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Join Date: Aug 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ Craig
Offroad capability has nothing to do with this point though. More fundamental way automotive manufacturers produce cars and ship. Toyota allows effectively zero customization and forces you into very specific options packages and trim levels.
A Toyota Camry has the same stupid ordering restrictions and it has similar offroad capability to a Jaguar .
For the record also, the Discovery is probably as capable as a 4Runner except for the fact that the tires lack of sidewall is an Achilles' heel. From what I've seen on the new Defender, I think it's likely going to be just as capable as a 4Runner to be honest, if not more so. I think it can pretty easily take 65 series sidewall tires which is a huge plus.
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Yeah, I don't recall ever being able to option-up any Toyota. It's just not the production/sales model they choose to use. Never bothered me, personally.
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07-17-2020, 08:18 AM
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#49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 83Mule
Being built in Japan at Tahara ONLY, and then shipped here effects what can be done within the margins. Also the relatively low volume means they don't need or want to make it complicated to produce. I could buy anything I wanted, and I went with the 4Runner again because I don't like Tech crap, just a solid, proven vehicle. Safety junk is the LEAST important consideration I look at, while the fact it was made IN Japan is very comforting to Me. I have been Toyota loyal since 78 SR-5 Pick-up and value, simple, Stout construction are my priority.
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I'm with Mule. Tiny little Japanese hands produce superior vehicles. I can go without any of the tech as long as I can hop in it and think nothing of driving 9 hours to Bangor and then back the next day. I do all my own work on vehicles so the reliability of this 4Runner has been by far its best asset. Saves me time, saves me money, gives me peace of mind. Only thing in 140K that went bad was that damn NSS, and I still think it bound up simply from not being driven enough.
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07-17-2020, 11:34 AM
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#50
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: East Bay
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Real Name: Sparky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thennen
Porsche = for a sh!t ton of money.
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The point was that you could have configured a Carrera 991.2 base model with a manual transmission and have it delivered to you in 2-3 months at BELOW the MSRP of 90-92 grand with ZERO options... and your dealer and Porsche would have been happy to build and sell it to you whereas if you wanted a base FJ Cruiser when they launched in 2007 you realized that they only made a handful to advertise a much lower MSRP than nearly all the ones making it to dealerships were selling for like 10 grand more.
It's the same dishonesty as when they launched the 5th gen and sold a few 4cylinder RWD models so they could claim an MSRP of 24999!!! when my Trail was like 38k.
Toyota is also notorious for bundling all the good 4WD stuff with the most expensive trim packages. The SR5 should have all the 4WD add-on you can get on the Off Road or PRO.
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07-17-2020, 12:10 PM
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#51
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Location: CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandCruiser
Toyota is also notorious for bundling all the good 4WD stuff with the most expensive trim packages.
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And even then they can't get it 100% correct.
Limited is the only option that comes with real leather seats and a Torsen TC, but no rear locker.
Every single trim level they make has something missing, which misses the mark just enough to still pass.
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07-17-2020, 12:23 PM
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#52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandCruiser
The point was that you could have configured a Carrera 991.2 base model with a manual transmission and have it delivered to you in 2-3 months at BELOW the MSRP of 90-92 grand with ZERO options... and your dealer and Porsche would have been happy to build and sell it to you whereas if you wanted a base FJ Cruiser when they launched in 2007 you realized that they only made a handful to advertise a much lower MSRP than nearly all the ones making it to dealerships were selling for like 10 grand more.
It's the same dishonesty as when they launched the 5th gen and sold a few 4cylinder RWD models so they could claim an MSRP of 24999!!! when my Trail was like 38k.
Toyota is also notorious for bundling all the good 4WD stuff with the most expensive trim packages. The SR5 should have all the 4WD add-on you can get on the Off Road or PRO.
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Yeah, I'm not going to critique Porsche or Toyota or whomever for their sales methods. I think every company tries for the thing that will make them the most money, while attracting and retaining the most customers. It's different with them all, I imagine. I would suck at it - too many variables and too much risk. In my view, if they're using really lousy tactics, or I'm bothered by what I see as dishonesty, and those things make me not want to buy from them, then I won't. If enough people do that, maybe they change something.
As I mentioned earlier, I don't recall Toyota ever doing things much differently than they do today, sales-wise (with the possible exception of different radio choices). Their cars were always equipped mostly based on trim levels and so forth. DLX came with this and that, SR5 came with those things plus a few other things, LE was everything in a lot of cases - but maybe you couldn't get a Camry LE or XLE with a manual transmission, and on and on. I've always looked at it as simply their way of doing business. I don't ever recall being able to order/configure a Toyota from an options list. The closest I ever came to that was on my 1984 Celica GTS, but that was simply, "Here's a listing of the cars destined for our dealership" kind of thing. I just picked the one that was equipped how I wanted it. (That was my most memorable purchase, by the way, because the salesman would call to tell me when it got on the boat, then it'll be in San Francisco tomorrow, it landed, it's on the transport, etc.)
As for the "loss leader" pricing, I think they're not the only ones to have ever done that. I'm sure it goes on elsewhere. "Starting at $XX,XXX" means whatever the lowest-equipped model comes with. I think the lowest-priced Porsche today is somewhere around $60k, so they're playing on two different levels, really.
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07-17-2020, 12:48 PM
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#53
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Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Norco, CA
Posts: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mteolus
A Jeep is the most capable 4x4 sold today. Despite what Ford says about the new Bronco, the Jeep will still be more capable equipped exactly the same since it has a solid front axle. Toyota has nothing even close to comparable to the Jeep and I don't think 4Runner folks really want the 4Runner to be that way anyway. But I think it would be nice to be able to put 33" or 34" tires without any fender cutting or BMCs, have decent power, have more than 5 gears, have good braking, and for god sakes decent lighting inside and out. Why do we need to buy a Sprint Booster, can't they program the accelerator a little better??? I don't think we want everything the Ford Bronco has, I don't really need removable doors or a roof, I just think there are a few things Toyota can do to make the 4Runner much better without anything that would compromise reliability. Putting the GX engine and transmission in the 4Runner would be a good start. How about LED lighting? How about an optional front locking diff? It doesn't hurt to complain, maybe they will eventually listen?
The reason why people talk about the Jeeps and Broncos around here is that they are updated so there are things to talk about. The 4Runner, not so much.
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this pretty much sums up my thought. I think the Jeep is a fun vehicle and not really ideal as a daily driver. The 4runner can be fun though not as fun but definitely good for daily driving. Jeep has more extensibility and tons of aftermarket where the 4runner lags behind.
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07-17-2020, 01:01 PM
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#54
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: North of Dallas
Posts: 1,664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandCruiser
The point was that you could have configured a Carrera 991.2 base model with a manual transmission and have it delivered to you in 2-3 months at BELOW the MSRP of 90-92 grand with ZERO options... and your dealer and Porsche would have been happy to build and sell it to you whereas if you wanted a base FJ Cruiser when they launched in 2007 you realized that they only made a handful to advertise a much lower MSRP than nearly all the ones making it to dealerships were selling for like 10 grand more.
It's the same dishonesty as when they launched the 5th gen and sold a few 4cylinder RWD models so they could claim an MSRP of 24999!!! when my Trail was like 38k.
Toyota is also notorious for bundling all the good 4WD stuff with the most expensive trim packages. The SR5 should have all the 4WD add-on you can get on the Off Road or PRO.
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It’s a Japanese thing. Honda and Acura do it too. They offer packages. American vehicles are the ones where you can pick through several pages of single options.
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07-17-2020, 01:17 PM
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#55
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichinRidgewood
It’s a Japanese thing. Honda and Acura do it too. They offer packages. American vehicles are the ones where you can pick through several pages of single options.
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Even the domestics seem to be moving away from this model. Try to spec out a Raptor - You'll quickly find the mid $50k starting price shift up to $70k if you want a few choice items. Everything comes bundled in a $3-$5k option group.
Gone are the days of COPO or similar where you can snag the handful of things that were of value to you a-la-carte.
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07-17-2020, 02:01 PM
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#56
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Location: Tulsa, OK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy
And Toyota is updated it's products in other markets. The Prado and Hilux are getting new and significantly more powerful engines this year. It's basically just our market that isn't getting updated even if they keep the same platform.
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I read time and again how other countries get all the cooler/better vehicles and the USA is basically left with the dregs. Given how the rest of the world views us now, thanks to YouKnowWho, I guess we’re the “shithole” country now
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07-17-2020, 02:18 PM
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#58
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Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Prescott, Arizona
Posts: 48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsla72
Even the domestics seem to be moving away from this model. Try to spec out a Raptor - You'll quickly find the mid $50k starting price shift up to $70k if you want a few choice items. Everything comes bundled in a $3-$5k option group.
Gone are the days of COPO or similar where you can snag the handful of things that were of value to you a-la-carte.
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Agreed, I'm not sure where these talking points are even coming from. I don't know of any automakers that are still offering anything more than simple alterations within their preset packages. I considered a Grand Cherokee when they started making them with a Diesel. I wanted a comfortable workhorse SUV that I could take camping, etc, and had gobs of power. Well, the Diesel motor isn't an option without the luxury package with all the technology BS for an extra $6K, and even then it had to be oredered that way because all the dealer stock was the "Overland" package which was another 4-5K more on top of that. This sounds like a pointless argument to me. If Wranglers were built like Toyota's and had all the extra options available to choose from, they would be priced like Land Rovers...
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07-17-2020, 02:25 PM
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#59
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Join Date: May 2017
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GupsT4R
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It's not news. The 4runner does a bunch of stuff "good enough".
I looked a the:
Wrangler/Gladiator - hated the boxy design and awkward doors. Not to mention they don't drive straight ever.
Looked at the Colorado, but wasn't quite convinced when it came to writing a check.
Tacoma is always good, but expensive for what you get.
F-150 is a great driving vehicle but way too big for my area.
Cherokee Trail Hawk - Garbage.
In the end the 4runner was the best all around choice. Not as nice to drive as the F-150 or offroad capable as the "real" jeeps nor as featured as the Colorado nor useful as the Tacoma. But it's a known quantity. So I'm one of they guys that buys "good enough" at a lot of things.
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07-17-2020, 02:28 PM
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#60
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Location: San Jose, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsla72
Even the domestics seem to be moving away from this model. Try to spec out a Raptor - You'll quickly find the mid $50k starting price shift up to $70k if you want a few choice items. Everything comes bundled in a $3-$5k option group.
Gone are the days of COPO or similar where you can snag the handful of things that were of value to you a-la-carte.
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LOL - COPO 4Runner.
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