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Old 09-01-2020, 10:40 AM #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperT4R View Post
Has anyone seen a '21 on a dealer lot yet?
Nope, but I'm haggling on a 2021 Venture that's supposed to hit the lot on Sept 15. Wish me luck.
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Old 09-01-2020, 10:46 AM #62
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Is it me or did the MPG go down? 16/19 EPA for all models except the TRD Pro which is rated at 17/20...? Pretty sure it used to be 17/21 when I bought mine.

Also I'm pretty miffed about how this will affect my resale value. I mean I only have a Trail model, mine isn't even the Trail Special Edition
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Old 09-01-2020, 10:57 AM #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrandom View Post
Uh... you need to look further back, sales were down due to a recession, not because of design. They really tanked starting in 2007.

Toyota 4Runner - Wikipedia
I do understand that there are other factors in play... that's called life.

What year(s) did they sell over 130k units?
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Old 09-01-2020, 12:09 PM #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mo_mo View Post
I do understand that there are other factors in play... that's called life.

What year(s) did they sell over 130k units?
I understand that LOL that isn't how you framed it. That's all

They haven't but they have come close several times.

1997 128,496
1998 118,484
1999 124,221

2003 109,308
2004 114,212
2005 103,830
2006 103,086

Also there are ~31 million more people in the US since '99
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Old 09-01-2020, 06:43 PM #65
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I am trying to order 21 ORP with the sliding cargo deck. I am in Pennsylvania- has anyone placed the order for 21's here yet? I am also told that sliding cargo deck is not an option in our region and so far I am striking out on dealership willing to trade. Other than the southeast region where else is this an option?
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Old 09-01-2020, 08:33 PM #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnyday View Post
I am trying to order 21 ORP with the sliding cargo deck. I am in Pennsylvania- has anyone placed the order for 21's here yet? I am also told that sliding cargo deck is not an option in our region and so far I am striking out on dealership willing to trade. Other than the southeast region where else is this an option?

Ohio is part of the Southeast region, I believe. I’d have to look back at my paperwork.


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Old 09-01-2020, 08:48 PM #67
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Just curious about this one, but I wonder if its because the Defender and Bronco are about to drop; Toyota pricing their TRD Pro as a way to finagle the crowd just based on the price.
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Old 09-01-2020, 10:00 PM #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrandom View Post
I understand that LOL that isn't how you framed it. That's all

They haven't but they have come close several times.

1997 128,496
1998 118,484
1999 124,221

2003 109,308
2004 114,212
2005 103,830
2006 103,086

Also there are ~31 million more people in the US since '99
Good point. Let's compare to some cross shopping vehicles and total US auto sales for the periods in question.

2014-2019 Sales: 4Runner, Wrangler, JGC, Total US Auto in 1,000s
685.746 / 1228.414 / 1301.021 / 118749.695

2010-2013 Sales
191.255 / 513.941 / 541.388 / 78692.491

1994-2010 Sales
1485.647 / 1322.362 / 3266.951 / 96546.983

2014-2019 Sales Ratio: Wrangler/4Runner, JGC/4Runner, Total/4Runner (lower is better for Toyota)
1.8, 1.9, 96.7

2010-2013 Ratios
2.7 / 2.8 / 153.1

1994-2009 Ratios
.9 / 2.2 / 73.0

Looks like something happened to the Toyota 4Runners from 2010-2013, but I just can't seem to put my finger on the nose of this one.

The real take away is that Toyota is not going to do a big update on the 4Runner until the next gen platform is here, as BOF only has some many folks in the market place. Otherwise they are going to keep it simple with what they've got since it is working.

Of course it might not be the 5a to b rev that is driving more sales. Could be marketing, pricing, color options, amazing infotainment system, product availability, etc.
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Old 09-02-2020, 06:58 AM #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW.OH.T4R View Post
Ohio is part of the Southeast region, I believe. I’d have to look back at my paperwork.


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Thank you. It is Ohio Valley Region.
What discount is achievable on 21 ORP factory order? Are doc fees negotiable?
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Old 09-02-2020, 07:06 AM #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17KT4R View Post
Well in my parts where we get winter, you need heat buildup in there from the halogen DRL to melt off snow and ice so Toyota likely left things as is for that particular reason being that nothing else is redesigned. After installing my LED's from Diode Dynamics I quickly realized this during winter driving (have to keep them clean and polished so crap slides off and even that is hopeful at best) Gotta move south someday.
Would you still recommend getting the '21 ORP with updated LED headlights and fog lights vs current model. I though the LED's would be a way to go since I keep reading about the poor headlights. I am in PA so certainly don't get as much snow as you, but driving on country roads with deer is an issue.
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Old 09-02-2020, 07:22 AM #71
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Would you still recommend getting the '21 ORP with updated LED headlights and fog lights vs current model. I though the LED's would be a way to go since I keep reading about the poor headlights. I am in PA so certainly don't get as much snow as you, but driving on country roads with deer is an issue.
OEM LED headlights were a deciding factor for me. I paid what amounted to a few thousand extra for a 2021 over a 2020, but being that I plan to keep this vehicle for 15 years, I did not want to sacrifice anything and then end up regretting it in the long run.

FYI, we also purchased a 2020 Limited for my wife last month and I'll confirm, the headlights are pretty awful compared to other modern vehicles. We could obviously replace them with aftermarket, but it seems that most bulbs and kits are junk from what I've been reading on various forums.
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Old 09-02-2020, 08:47 AM #72
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Originally Posted by Sunnyday View Post
Thank you. It is Ohio Valley Region.
What discount is achievable on 21 ORP factory order? Are doc fees negotiable?
Oh okay. It is MI, OH, TN, and KY. Some doc fees could be negotiable, but keep in mind these fees are there to pay the people doing the work behind the curtain. As for discounts, I won't be of any help because I'm a Toyota Supplier, so my pricing is set at $500 less than invoice, plus any other Toyota incentives.
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Old 09-02-2020, 01:24 PM #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mo_mo View Post
Good point. Let's compare to some cross shopping vehicles and total US auto sales for the periods in question.

2014-2019 Sales: 4Runner, Wrangler, JGC, Total US Auto in 1,000s
685.746 / 1228.414 / 1301.021 / 118749.695

2010-2013 Sales
191.255 / 513.941 / 541.388 / 78692.491

1994-2010 Sales
1485.647 / 1322.362 / 3266.951 / 96546.983

2014-2019 Sales Ratio: Wrangler/4Runner, JGC/4Runner, Total/4Runner (lower is better for Toyota)
1.8, 1.9, 96.7

2010-2013 Ratios
2.7 / 2.8 / 153.1

1994-2009 Ratios
.9 / 2.2 / 73.0

Looks like something happened to the Toyota 4Runners from 2010-2013, but I just can't seem to put my finger on the nose of this one.

The real take away is that Toyota is not going to do a big update on the 4Runner until the next gen platform is here, as BOF only has some many folks in the market place. Otherwise they are going to keep it simple with what they've got since it is working.

Of course it might not be the 5a to b rev that is driving more sales. Could be marketing, pricing, color options, amazing infotainment system, product availability, etc.
You chose to cross shop an American made vehicle with a Japanese made vehicle during a massive recession period? One that specifically hammered US auto makers, at that time were offering stupid discounts on new autos? Concurrently, the highest adjusted for inflation gas prices since the late seventies? Roughly 4 years of ~$4.00 per gallon fuel does not bode well for a gas guzzler.

I do see where you are going and of course, the major point being, you like the fugly front and I do not. That's totally okay It makes for an interesting discussion. I personally think the 5th gen overall is fugly, 1st & 3rd's being my favorites

4runners being one of the original mid-size SUV have held market place for decades, that market share is totally generational now, much like other brand/models. Kids grow up in them, get hand-me-downs and often buying new later.

I concur, Toyota's marketing is doing a good job selling to those with the "get out" & "go wild" whatever. People are slurping it up like good soup, regardless of the ~17 real world per mile fuel economy! Which lots of folks will then come here and complain about! oh and hell yeah 9 trim levels, woohoo!

Certainly that amazing infotainment system has kept Toyota on top

Having long generations is great for those of us, like you(?) and I that hold on and actually repair, instead of move on. So just for that, yeah, I am fine with all those sales. We've got spare parts for eons.
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Old 09-02-2020, 02:07 PM #74
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It's 66k if you want crawl control and doesn't have a locking rear diff
The GX doesn't have a locking rear diff, but it does come with a center diff lock.
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Old 09-02-2020, 03:02 PM #75
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The GX doesn't have a locking rear diff, but it does come with a center diff lock.
Which it only needs because of the full time 4wd option. That's no better traction wise than a regular transfer case which is already a locked center member.
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