Home Menu

Site Navigation


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-08-2021, 10:02 PM #1
Drheim Drheim is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Vail, CO
Posts: 26
Drheim is on a distinguished road
Drheim Drheim is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Vail, CO
Posts: 26
Drheim is on a distinguished road
2013 4runner gas mileage getting much worse?

Hey Guys,

I have a 2013 SR5 with the 6 cylinder(100k miles) and have been living in the mountains of Colorado for the past 7 years. I usually reset my gas mileage once a year, or before extremely long road trips, etc. There is obviously not near as much stop and go in the mountains, but I typically would get ~21mpg over several months of usage at around 8000'. I just moved to sea level(rural) and and noticed my gas mileage get much worse(17mpg)and do not think it is just because there are more stop lights/accelerating around here, etc. Thinking that gas engines should typically be much more efficient at sea level than altitude, I checked the air pressure in the tires and waited until I took a road trip down for another comparison. Even with correct tire pressure and same weight in the 4runner, etc., I am only getting 18-19 on 200 mile interstate road trips when driving by myself and used to get 23-24 on 200 mile road trips. Anyone have any ideas? It really feels like it has changed outside of normal difference of highway/city drops, etc.

Last edited by Drheim; 02-08-2021 at 10:12 PM.
Drheim is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-08-2021, 10:07 PM #2
T4R416 T4R416 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 266
T4R416 will become famous soon enough
T4R416 T4R416 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 266
T4R416 will become famous soon enough
First thing I am going to suggest and ask is have you done all maintenance ? Air filter? Spark plugs? Oil change and filter ? Etc
T4R416 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-08-2021, 10:33 PM #3
yotantexas's Avatar
yotantexas yotantexas is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DFW
Posts: 241
yotantexas is on a distinguished road
yotantexas yotantexas is offline
Member
yotantexas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DFW
Posts: 241
yotantexas is on a distinguished road
Mountains = more coasting down hill compared to flat ground.
Also thinner air at 8000 feet so the truck calibrates how much fuel it delivers based on how much air the engine is sucking in.
But I bet your truck seems to have a good bit more pep at sea level.
yotantexas is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-08-2021, 10:38 PM #4
TEujunga's Avatar
TEujunga TEujunga is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 291
TEujunga has a spectacular aura about TEujunga has a spectacular aura about
TEujunga TEujunga is offline
Member
TEujunga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 291
TEujunga has a spectacular aura about TEujunga has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drheim View Post
Hey Guys,

I have a 2013 SR5 with the 6 cylinder(100k miles) and have been living in the mountains of Colorado for the past 7 years. I usually reset my gas mileage once a year, or before extremely long road trips, etc. There is obviously not near as much stop and go in the mountains, but I typically would get ~21mpg over several months of usage at around 8000'. I just moved to sea level(rural) and and noticed my gas mileage get much worse(17mpg)and do not think it is just because there are more stop lights/accelerating around here, etc. Thinking that gas engines should typically be much more efficient at sea level than altitude, I checked the air pressure in the tires and waited until I took a road trip down for another comparison. Even with correct tire pressure and same weight in the 4runner, etc., I am only getting 18-19 on 200 mile interstate road trips when driving by myself and used to get 23-24 on 200 mile road trips. Anyone have any ideas? It really feels like it has changed outside of normal difference of highway/city drops, etc.
Actually, all things being equal, gas engines with EFI theoretically operate slightly more efficiently at higher altitude because pumping losses are reduced. The engine makes less peak power, but for a given power output at part throttle, it operates at larger throttle openings. That means it doesn't have to work as hard to squeeze the air it's inhaling past a mostly closed throttle plate.

Also, because the air is thinner at high altitude, there is less wind resistance -- fewer air molecules means less force pushing against the truck at a given speed. This is probably a bigger factor for MPG than the pumping losses.

In any case, your sea-level fuel mileage is right in the normal ballpark. There are any number of MPG threads on this site that you can use for comparison purposes.
__________________
2016 Trail Edition w/KDSS - Super White - Toytec - Eibach/Bilstein - Kumho 275/70-17
TEujunga is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-08-2021, 11:02 PM #5
DougR's Avatar
DougR DougR is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 458
DougR is just really nice DougR is just really nice DougR is just really nice DougR is just really nice
DougR DougR is offline
Member
DougR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 458
DougR is just really nice DougR is just really nice DougR is just really nice DougR is just really nice
Google "do cars get better gas mileage at higher altitude" to find lots of hits and some conflicting information because many of the sources are anecdotal.

Two factors are in effect at higher altitudes, (1) throttle loss, and (2) aerodynamic drag. Both effects are reduced, which produces better fuel efficiency if the engine is in tune and the vehicle well maintained.

See MIT School of Engineering | >> Which engine is better at high altitude: diesel or gasoline?

See ResearchGate

The internal combustion engine is an air pump with an inlet air throttle. Higher altitude implies less dense air and lower power. Driver unconsciously compensates by depressing accelerator pedal for more power, which opens the throttle plate, reducing the inlet loss, thereby contributing to better air pumping (air through-flow) efficiency.

Lower air density at altitude reduces aerodynamic drag. A 4Runner has higher aerodynamic drag than most passenger vehicles, so it is likely to offer more improvement at altitude.

(I began to type a reply before yotantexas posted his reply. I was interrupted and finished my post after TEujunga's response. This explains why there is duplicate information in my reply.)

Last edited by DougR; 02-09-2021 at 12:33 AM.
DougR is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-08-2021, 11:56 PM #6
LandCruiser's Avatar
LandCruiser LandCruiser is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: East Bay
Posts: 4,584
Real Name: Sparky
LandCruiser has much to be proud of LandCruiser has much to be proud of LandCruiser has much to be proud of LandCruiser has much to be proud of LandCruiser has much to be proud of LandCruiser has much to be proud of LandCruiser has much to be proud of LandCruiser has much to be proud of LandCruiser has much to be proud of LandCruiser has much to be proud of
LandCruiser LandCruiser is offline
Senior Member
LandCruiser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: East Bay
Posts: 4,584
Real Name: Sparky
LandCruiser has much to be proud of LandCruiser has much to be proud of LandCruiser has much to be proud of LandCruiser has much to be proud of LandCruiser has much to be proud of LandCruiser has much to be proud of LandCruiser has much to be proud of LandCruiser has much to be proud of LandCruiser has much to be proud of LandCruiser has much to be proud of
I have a 13 and I would get mpg in the low 14s on the Front Range.
__________________
Old and (c)rusty.
LandCruiser is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 12:48 AM #7
1jzgte 1jzgte is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,184
1jzgte is just really nice 1jzgte is just really nice 1jzgte is just really nice 1jzgte is just really nice
1jzgte 1jzgte is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,184
1jzgte is just really nice 1jzgte is just really nice 1jzgte is just really nice 1jzgte is just really nice
very conflicting stuff..

at higher altitudes means thinner air which equals to less aerodynamic drag which is a plus for mpgs... however higher altitude also means less oxygen which means a less efficient combustion for our engines which should decrease mpgs

however when humidity comes into play at higher altitude the air "thickens" again and introduces turbulence which is the same idea of a shaky turbulent airplane flying through clouds rather than clear skies..

has the weather been wet and humid where you've been driving? Since you moved to a place with sea level, what material are the roads? concrete? blacktop? I've read that the type of surface can affect mpgs as well..

Last edited by 1jzgte; 02-09-2021 at 12:51 AM.
1jzgte is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 01:28 AM #8
euser euser is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 213
euser will become famous soon enough euser will become famous soon enough
euser euser is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 213
euser will become famous soon enough euser will become famous soon enough
Sounds normal to me. I average 16-17 around town, and around 21 if I’m going 55-60. At actual highway speeds I’ll average ~17. That’s how it’s been since the day I drove it off the lot with 1 mile. I’ve never seen 23-24 in normal driving.

Last edited by euser; 02-09-2021 at 01:31 AM.
euser is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 01:59 AM #9
TEujunga's Avatar
TEujunga TEujunga is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 291
TEujunga has a spectacular aura about TEujunga has a spectacular aura about
TEujunga TEujunga is offline
Member
TEujunga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 291
TEujunga has a spectacular aura about TEujunga has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1jzgte View Post
very conflicting stuff..

at higher altitudes means thinner air which equals to less aerodynamic drag which is a plus for mpgs... however higher altitude also means less oxygen which means a less efficient combustion for our engines which should decrease mpgs

however when humidity comes into play at higher altitude the air "thickens" again and introduces turbulence which is the same idea of a shaky turbulent airplane flying through clouds rather than clear skies..

has the weather been wet and humid where you've been driving? Since you moved to a place with sea level, what material are the roads? concrete? blacktop? I've read that the type of surface can affect mpgs as well..
Nothing "conflicting"... just incorrect

All modern EFI engines with O2 sensors automatically compensate for changes in oxygen content due to altitude or temperature when operating under closed-loop conditions, such as at part-throttle cruise. Assuming the EFI system is working right, combustion efficiency remains the same under all conditions of air density, humidity, and altitude.

The stuff about humidity making air thicker and more turbulent is... how shall I say it... fake news?

Humid air actually has less oxygen content because the water vapor molecules displace air molecules. Cool, dry air is the densest and has the most oxygen available for burning more fuel and thus making more power, which is why racers love it.

Humidity doesn't directly cause turbulence. Airplanes flying through clouds encounter turbulence because of rising and falling air. Rising humid air condenses to form clouds. The amount of turbulence is dependent on the air movement, not the humidity.

Honestly, this is all pretty basic science easily available to anyone willing to learn it rather than make stuff up.
__________________
2016 Trail Edition w/KDSS - Super White - Toytec - Eibach/Bilstein - Kumho 275/70-17

Last edited by TEujunga; 02-09-2021 at 02:04 AM.
TEujunga is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 02:24 AM #10
ElectroBoy ElectroBoy is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,247
Real Name: Mark
ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future
ElectroBoy ElectroBoy is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,247
Real Name: Mark
ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future ElectroBoy has a brilliant future
This is interesting information about MPG at altitude. I calculate my gas mileage for each tankful for comparison. It gives me a better idea of what’s going on. The onboard meter is an average between resets. It smooths out the wide swings you get from various driving conditions over time.

I’m wondering if there’s a difference in the OP’s fuel situation at the lower elevation. In some high elevation areas the fuel is 85 octane for regular, for example. Also if there’s a winter blend formulation change you just encountered that could affect gas mileage.
ElectroBoy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 02:44 AM #11
DallasTRDPro's Avatar
DallasTRDPro DallasTRDPro is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 726
DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light
DallasTRDPro DallasTRDPro is offline
Member
DallasTRDPro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 726
DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light DallasTRDPro is a glorious beacon of light
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drheim View Post
Hey Guys,

I have a 2013 SR5 with the 6 cylinder(100k miles) and have been living in the mountains of Colorado for the past 7 years. I usually reset my gas mileage once a year, or before extremely long road trips, etc. There is obviously not near as much stop and go in the mountains, but I typically would get ~21mpg over several months of usage at around 8000'. I just moved to sea level(rural) and and noticed my gas mileage get much worse(17mpg)and do not think it is just because there are more stop lights/accelerating around here, etc. Thinking that gas engines should typically be much more efficient at sea level than altitude, I checked the air pressure in the tires and waited until I took a road trip down for another comparison. Even with correct tire pressure and same weight in the 4runner, etc., I am only getting 18-19 on 200 mile interstate road trips when driving by myself and used to get 23-24 on 200 mile road trips. Anyone have any ideas? It really feels like it has changed outside of normal difference of highway/city drops, etc.
I have no idea how people see these numbers. I live in Dallas and at best get 15. During a trip to Moab I got 19.
DallasTRDPro is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 11:02 AM #12
2021TrailAG 2021TrailAG is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: PA
Posts: 11
2021TrailAG is on a distinguished road
2021TrailAG 2021TrailAG is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: PA
Posts: 11
2021TrailAG is on a distinguished road
This might happen more or less "on the fly" with the computer, but I would maybe try resetting the ECU for fuel/air mixtures. Something like disconnecting the battery for 20-30 minutes does it on most cars.
__________________
2021 Trail in Army Green
Mods: Falken Wildpeak AT3, 265/70/17
2021TrailAG is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 03:13 PM #13
1000MPH's Avatar
1000MPH 1000MPH is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Northern NV
Posts: 1,987
1000MPH is a name known to all 1000MPH is a name known to all 1000MPH is a name known to all 1000MPH is a name known to all 1000MPH is a name known to all 1000MPH is a name known to all
1000MPH 1000MPH is offline
Senior Member
1000MPH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Northern NV
Posts: 1,987
1000MPH is a name known to all 1000MPH is a name known to all 1000MPH is a name known to all 1000MPH is a name known to all 1000MPH is a name known to all 1000MPH is a name known to all
IMO: Above 21mpg Hwy on a stock vehicle needs perfect conditions. No headwind, moderate temps, light traffic, less than 75mph.
Below 20mpg Hwy usually means headwind, above 70-75 speeds, heavier traffic with lots of heavy throttle use to pass or keep up.
I can get around 23mph on back highways where traffic is light, temps are moderate, no headwind, 60-70mph
A/C use does make a small hit but I’ve really not been able to accurately calculate. Some of my best mileage has been with A/C on.
__________________
2010 Trail - 135k mi - KDSS - Classic Silver Metallic - Bilstein 5100s - Tires: Michelin X-LT A/S 36psi - Oil: M1 EP 5W/30 - Diffs and T/C: Delvac 75W-90 Synthetic - Toyota WS ATF - ScanGauge - Viofo dashcam - Husky Weatherbeaters - Plasti Dip wheels and chrome delete - Wheel Center Caps delete - Roof Rack Cross Bars delete - Cargo Tray divider delete
1000MPH is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 06:18 PM #14
progress4m's Avatar
progress4m progress4m is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Aledo, TX
Posts: 945
progress4m will become famous soon enough progress4m will become famous soon enough
progress4m progress4m is offline
Member
progress4m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Aledo, TX
Posts: 945
progress4m will become famous soon enough progress4m will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by yotantexas View Post
.
... thinner air at 8000 feet so the truck calibrates how much fuel it delivers based on how much air the engine is sucking in.
But I bet your truck seems to have a good bit more pep at sea level.
x2 on that! with one more addition, thinner air = less resistance, consequently lees fuel needed.

To OP: I leave in DFW (Texas) area, but have made many many trips to mountains (Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, etc.)... every time elevation goes up so does my MPG... on the average in the elevation of 5000-7000 feet my MPG is about 2-3 mpg better vs. my home (flat land)... and I have seeing very similar result with every 4Runner I had in the past (2nd, 3rd and 4th gen).
__________________
2013 Silver Trail (with KDSS)-Nitto TG-G2, Bilstein 5100, Custom lift: front 2.1", rear 1.5" (lift info: [URL=https://www.toyota-4runner.org/2938235-post744.html[/URL] thread #744)
1995 SR5 4x4, 1996 SR5 4x4, 2005 SR5 V8 4x4- All Sold, but not forgotten!
DON'T GET CONFUSED BETWEEN MY PERSONALITY AND MY ATTITUDE. MY PERSONALITY IS WHO I AM...MY ATTITUDE DEPENDS ON WHO YOU ARE
progress4m is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 07:49 PM #15
spartacus's Avatar
spartacus spartacus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: denver
Posts: 3,010
spartacus has much to be proud of spartacus has much to be proud of spartacus has much to be proud of spartacus has much to be proud of spartacus has much to be proud of spartacus has much to be proud of spartacus has much to be proud of spartacus has much to be proud of spartacus has much to be proud of
spartacus spartacus is offline
Senior Member
spartacus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: denver
Posts: 3,010
spartacus has much to be proud of spartacus has much to be proud of spartacus has much to be proud of spartacus has much to be proud of spartacus has much to be proud of spartacus has much to be proud of spartacus has much to be proud of spartacus has much to be proud of spartacus has much to be proud of
Higher elevation having less air pressure it takes a lower compression to ignite gasoline, lower octane(85) gas can be used which intern reduces the power of the motor engine needs to work harder but requires less gas.
spartacus is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Tags
gas , level , road , sea , trips


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Worse gas mileage after changing O2 sensor manp0899 4th Gen T4Rs 6 10-01-2021 12:12 AM
2013 4Runner 2013 TRAIL front end FOR SALE Fort Worth Texas $350 OBO Mighue For Sale: T4R Items 1 10-18-2018 03:31 PM
Think I have my worse-than-normal fuel mileage licked Nuke 4th Gen T4Rs 3 05-05-2014 07:48 PM
Worse mileage after K&N?!?? MtnBkr 4th Gen T4Rs 16 09-28-2012 08:01 PM
Why do bigger tires cause worse mileage? HuntRunner 4th Gen T4Rs 38 01-09-2006 11:47 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:42 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
***This site is an unofficial Toyota site, and is not officially endorsed, supported, authorized by or affiliated with Toyota. All company, product, or service names references in this web site are used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Toyota name, marks, designs and logos, as well as Toyota model names, are registered trademarks of Toyota Motor Corporation***Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
Copyright © 2020