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Old 02-18-2021, 11:22 AM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Planet View Post
Drop-in LED's a typically regarded as junk by people in the know.
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Originally Posted by Immersion_Suit View Post
I installed GTR Ultra 2 LEDs for both my high beams and low beams and I think they perform excellently. The highs have the PWM module so no flickering. The DRL's are a bit too bright, so I don't often run them, but I have never been flashed for my lows. The low beams have good cutoffs and decent throw. The highs are insanely, stupidly bright which I'm fine with on dark country roads.

Installation was pretty easy as the light housing fits inside the low beam projector housing with no modification of the dust cover.
LEDs seem to be a very polarizing thing on the forums. One says they are useless "because the the OE reflectors arent designed for them" and the other say they love them. Hard to find whats the truth unless you try for yourself I guess.
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Old 02-18-2021, 11:36 AM #17
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LEDs seem to be a very polarizing thing on the forums. One says they are useless "because the the OE reflectors arent designed for them" and the other say they love them. Hard to find whats the truth unless you try for yourself I guess.
They are objectively worse when paired with projectors made for halogen bulbs.

There is TONS of hype on the internet because they may seem passable at first glance and they are sold at crazy markups. The light in foreground is typically much brighter, but the throw is significantly diminished. You are also blinding everyone on the road.

They real solution is projector retrofit, but that's a lot of work and money. People don't/can't do that, so they take the easy way out.

It is empirically proven that these kits are bad. There is a reason most of the somewhat decent resellers list these as 'off-road only'

You can find a mountain of data indicating that these are bad. Try to find actual reproducible data indicating otherwise. It's always someone's opinion or just straight vitriol.

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Old 02-18-2021, 12:01 PM #18
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Quote:
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They are objectively worse when paired with projectors made for halogen bulbs.

There is TONS of hype on the internet because they may seem passable at first glance and they are sold at crazy markups. The light in foreground is typically much brighter, but the throw is significantly diminished. You are also blinding everyone on the road.

They real solution is projector retrofit, but that's a lot of work and money. People don't/can't do that, so they take the easy way out.

It is empirically proven that these kits are bad. There is a reason most of the somewhat decent resellers list these as 'off-road only'

You can find a mountain of data indicating that these are bad. Try to find actual reproducible data indicating otherwise. It's always someone's opinion or just straight vitriol.
I concur I was reading all of that science back in 2017 as well but I chose to purchase the 2 leading LED units at the time (DD & XD). I've been impressed with their manufacturing standard. For sure there would be a slight performance decrease in the way that you explain being that they are inside a projector designed for halogen but on the other facets I can say that they are not blinding and have no glare, perhaps it is their design too or the intensity that they emit being close to a halogen luminaire. I've seen cheap drop in Amazon LED's in many vehicles with similar projectors and yes they are way too bright, the light more like a flood as well.

I've been ahead of my truck many times in our other car and don't find annoying glare behind me, nor do I see it when the vehicle is coming toward me at night on wet roads etc. So I think there is something to be said for a higher quality choice in the LED market for sure, stay away from the cheap Amazon stuff.

On the issue of performance they are not going to outperform a halogen H11 or whatever totally agree, but I do have good night vision so this is not a problem for me (yet). But - when loaded down in the back however and the headlights face upward they are tougher to look at than halogen, probably because of color temp so I can see that pissing off some drivers on coming, the new OEM units must present the same issue.

Eventually I might change the assemblies out to the OEM's once my lens gets more wear and the pricing comes down... and there is a plug and play harness to convert or whatever the case may be but for now I think these have been a decent option for me looking to have the newer OEM look so to speak without any discernable performance decrease on the cottage roads.
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Old 02-18-2021, 12:14 PM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Planet View Post
They are objectively worse when paired with projectors made for halogen bulbs.

There is TONS of hype on the internet because they may seem passable at first glance and they are sold at crazy markups. The light in foreground is typically much brighter, but the throw is significantly diminished. You are also blinding everyone on the road.

They real solution is projector retrofit, but that's a lot of work and money. People don't/can't do that, so they take the easy way out.

It is empirically proven that these kits are bad. There is a reason most of the somewhat decent resellers list these as 'off-road only'

You can find a mountain of data indicating that these are bad. Try to find actual reproducible data indicating otherwise. It's always someone's opinion or just straight vitriol.
But wouldn't someones opinion that they are much better/brighter than the OE halogens be something that should be taken into account too? I understand the argument that an LED bulb that wasn't designed for the OE projector may not be ideal, but if the person is happy with the results I feel like that should also be taken into account, especially for the cost vs. either a new headlight, retrofits, HIDs, etc.. Personally, I don't care if it was designed for the OE projector or not if the performance is worth the price.

My point was that there are just as many people saying that they like them as there are people saying "they aren't designed for the OE projectors." I can't imagine everybody who likes them is just wrong...
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Old 02-18-2021, 01:38 PM #20
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Originally Posted by Pedro367 View Post
But wouldn't someones opinion that they are much better/brighter than the OE halogens be something that should be taken into account too? I understand the argument that an LED bulb that wasn't designed for the OE projector may not be ideal, but if the person is happy with the results I feel like that should also be taken into account, especially for the cost vs. either a new headlight, retrofits, HIDs, etc.. Personally, I don't care if it was designed for the OE projector or not if the performance is worth the price.

My point was that there are just as many people saying that they like them as there are people saying "they aren't designed for the OE projectors." I can't imagine everybody who likes them is just wrong...
Performance and opinion are 2 different things if one understands the way the halogen reflector and a burning halogen filament work together vs how a halogen reflector and a LED drop in bulb that does not emit the same arc range in that reflector.
My opinion may or may not be the same as others, but when performance is noticeably different/diminished, that was enough for me.
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Old 02-18-2021, 02:55 PM #21
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Performance and opinion are 2 different things if one understands the way the halogen reflector and a burning halogen filament work together vs how a halogen reflector and a LED drop in bulb that does not emit the same arc range in that reflector.
My opinion may or may not be the same as others, but when performance is noticeably different/diminished, that was enough for me.
Again, I'm not arguing "what's meant to be in the OE reflector housing." If they experience better performance and feel it's worth their investment than the "understanding of how a halogen reflector works and arc ranges" is erroneous. I'm sure what you are saying is correct, but I'm just playing devil's advocate that maybe those doing this upgrade don't care that it's not "right"....or even know...or care.

Now I'm curious as to what your experience is. Are you saying you have tried an LED drop in bulb and found that light output/performance was worse than a standard halogen bulb? What bulbs and what didn't you like/not like about them?

Keep in mind, I have no skin in this game. I don't have LEDs and don't have an opinion either way. I'm running the OE halogens and just trying to do some research. I want to understand if people who like them are actually right or if the "principles of halogen projectors" that you and others are discussing truly make an LED bulb worthless (even when people say they like them).

Forums are full of contradictory information on a lot of things based on experiences of some, opinions of another, and some people that try to make things way more complicated than they need to be. It's amazing how one person can say something and automatically that part is the best of the best or the worst of the worst. Sometimes until you try it yourself, you'll go nuts.
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Old 02-18-2021, 03:34 PM #22
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Again, I'm not arguing "what's meant to be in the OE reflector housing." If they experience better performance and feel it's worth their investment than the "understanding of how a halogen reflector works and arc ranges" is erroneous. I'm sure what you are saying is correct, but I'm just playing devil's advocate that maybe those doing this upgrade don't care that it's not "right"....or even know...or care.

Now I'm curious as to what your experience is. Are you saying you have tried an LED drop in bulb and found that light output/performance was worse than a standard halogen bulb? What bulbs and what didn't you like/not like about them?

Keep in mind, I have no skin in this game. I don't have LEDs and don't have an opinion either way. I'm running the OE halogens and just trying to do some research. I want to understand if people who like them are actually right or if the "principles of halogen projectors" that you and others are discussing truly make an LED bulb worthless (even when people say they like them).

Forums are full of contradictory information on a lot of things based on experiences of some, opinions of another, and some people that try to make things way more complicated than they need to be. It's amazing how one person can say something and automatically that part is the best of the best or the worst of the worst. Sometimes until you try it yourself, you'll go nuts.
I’m not thinking you are arguing, nor am I.

IIRC, they were DDM’s.
Output in front was bright and close in, coverage seemed good. Out in front, performance diminished.
So, I went with Morimoto HID’s instead.

There may be newer LED drop ins now that have more chips that may give better coverage.
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Old 02-18-2021, 04:43 PM #23
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I’m not thinking you are arguing, nor am I.

IIRC, they were DDM’s.
Output in front was bright and close in, coverage seemed good. Out in front, performance diminished.
So, I went with Morimoto HID’s instead.

There may be newer LED drop ins now that have more chips that may give better coverage.
You're right. Arguing wasnt the right word and I know we weren't. Appreciate the review on the DDMs. That's what I'm looking for!
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Old 02-18-2021, 06:00 PM #24
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You're right. Arguing wasnt the right word and I know we weren't. Appreciate the review on the DDMs. That's what I'm looking for!
All that said, nothing against DDM’s‘....
I have DDM sabers in my highbeams. It’s a 21 & it came with LED low beams so I’m not downing DDM‘s.
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Old 02-18-2021, 10:39 PM #25
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Off topic but how’s your 2021 led fogs?
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Old 02-18-2021, 11:48 PM #26
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@Birddog1911 ,
That will be interesting to say the least....!

Keep us informed if they actually do that and if they do, ask them how it was done.
@Saker I finally got to pick it up, but I'll need to go back on Saturday to finish the paperwork. They didn't give me the parts list yet, and forgot my owners manuals. But, they did install LED highs as required by me. They seem to be factory? They are bright as hell, with great throw.

I'll add more info as I can.
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Old 02-19-2021, 12:08 AM #27
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OP here, I initially also tried LED's in my low beams, won't say who from but they sucked, reduced output and poor beam pattern. I then opted for HID's to replace the LED units and was very pleased with the results. I got good cutoff and much better beam spread. I chose a warmer color also so it was close to the output of what was being offered in OEM on other cars not the blue light specials. I did lower the beam cutoff by a bit to compensate for the increased brightness as I felt the stock halogens were also disturbing to folks in small cars and I would randomly get flashed. I could see them lighting up the interiors of the cars ahead so knew it was too high even in the stock position. My 4R is not lifted. I would really like to find a high beam LED with improved output but closer to the 4500-5000 Kelvin light temperature but there do not seem to be any in that range. I would much prefer to not go to 6000 Kelvin.
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Old 02-19-2021, 12:13 AM #28
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Drop-in LED's a typically regarded as junk by people in the know.
The issue with led replacement bulbs is a mismatch in alignment between the light beam and the reflector. I have not been impressed with LEDs in the low beam projector.
High beams are a little different, no real cut off, no glare reduction, just “all the light everywhere” type of reflector (overly simplified). I have a no-brand pair of led high beams bulbs that I got for free off Amazon and they are bright as daylight, there’s barely a difference between them and my led light bar which actually makes me question my light bar a little... they do flicker on DRL but it’s really not that noticeable. I never run DRL anyways.
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Old 02-19-2021, 01:21 AM #29
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@Saker .........But, they did install LED highs as required by me. They seem to be factory? They are bright as hell, with great throw.

I'll add more info as I can.
So here is my question, is the low beam and the high beam in 1 module? IE: In the low beam location.

If not and your high beam is in the earlier year model high beam location, then you have the same headlights that I have .... all they did was put a drop in LED bulb in the high beam spot.

Now, if your low beam and the high beam are in the same module, then they changed the whole headlight assembly with a TRD Pro or Limited headlight system.
I would like to know if they changed a harness to achieve that.
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Old 02-19-2021, 07:45 AM #30
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I think I know what you mean, but I'll take a picture later today. Even if they did just drop an LED in, I'm happy with it.
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