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Old 02-17-2021, 05:03 PM #16
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[QUOTE
The only thing I do know is I had rear brake lines put in, so perhaps air got in during that time.[/QUOTE]

If they didn't bleed the brakes or did a subpar bleed after installing the lines then that would be the culprit.
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Old 02-17-2021, 05:22 PM #17
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The only thing I do know is I had rear brake lines put in, so perhaps air got in during that time.
If they didn't bleed the brakes or did a subpar bleed after installing the lines then that would be the culprit.[/QUOTE]

I would think braking would have been crap prior to the pad and rotor replacement if there was already air in the lines.
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Old 02-17-2021, 05:31 PM #18
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If they didn't bleed the brakes or did a subpar bleed after installing the lines then that would be the culprit.
I would think braking would have been crap prior to the pad and rotor replacement if there was already air in the lines.[/QUOTE]

I would 2nd that.
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Old 02-17-2021, 06:58 PM #19
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Is the truck driveable? You make it sound like you have no brakes. If the truck has brakes, then check the reservoir fluid level to make sure it is at the correct level. Then carefully drive to a secluded area or long parking lot and do some panic braking as I noted above to get the pads and rotors bedded and see if the brake come to life.

What brand pads and rotors did you use?
Yes I can drive it, but I wouldn't want to go over 40 in fear of not being able to stop in time if something were to happen. Even at 40 I'd probably stay further back because it takes longer than normal.

Reservoir is still at full. I'll find a lot tonight and test out what you think can work.

I went with Remmen Brakes.
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Old 02-17-2021, 06:59 PM #20
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If they didn't bleed the brakes or did a subpar bleed after installing the lines then that would be the culprit.

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I would think braking would have been crap prior to the pad and rotor replacement if there was already air in the lines.
I don't believe braking was any worse or better for that matter after it was done, so I would imagine it was done correctly.
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Old 02-17-2021, 08:29 PM #21
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Did you compress the calipers with a C-Clamp and an old pad? Did any of them seem really hard to compress then like POP and go in? Have you looked CAREFULLY at all the calipers to make sure there are no leaks? You shouldn't have any problems with just a pad or pad/rotor change. BUT I have run into issues compressing caliper pistons on Toyota truck 4 Piston calipers more times than I can count over the years. I'm on my 17th toyota truck now and I also work on cars for a living. Although rarely toyota trucks... Mostly hot rods and muscle cars. If you compressed a frozen piston it will likely be leaking. And that will make the pedal go the floor and cause it to stop poorly of course. Occasionally you can have a similar issue with a master cylinder too. If there is grit in the bore of the cylinder and you compress the brake pedal further than usual you can chew up the seals in the cylinder and have a leak there. Usually they'll leak out the back when that happens.
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Old 02-17-2021, 08:59 PM #22
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Did you compress the calipers with a C-Clamp and an old pad? Did any of them seem really hard to compress then like POP and go in? Have you looked CAREFULLY at all the calipers to make sure there are no leaks? You shouldn't have any problems with just a pad or pad/rotor change. BUT I have run into issues compressing caliper pistons on Toyota truck 4 Piston calipers more times than I can count over the years. I'm on my 17th toyota truck now and I also work on cars for a living. Although rarely toyota trucks... Mostly hot rods and muscle cars. If you compressed a frozen piston it will likely be leaking. And that will make the pedal go the floor and cause it to stop poorly of course. Occasionally you can have a similar issue with a master cylinder too. If there is grit in the bore of the cylinder and you compress the brake pedal further than usual you can chew up the seals in the cylinder and have a leak there. Usually they'll leak out the back when that happens.
No leaks anywhere that I could tell. All pistons went in easily. Took maybe a turn or two to compress them in. I'm hoping it's just air in the lines from when the rears were put on. But as said I don't recall losing any brake pressure so would be weird it happened now. Unless when compressing the pistons it pushed the air around? Not sure if possible or not.
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Old 02-17-2021, 10:16 PM #23
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Here's a link to the service manual for other possibilities

Toyota 4Runner: Problem Symptoms Table - Brake System - Service Manual
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Old 02-17-2021, 10:52 PM #24
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Here's a link to the service manual for other possibilities

Toyota 4Runner: Problem Symptoms Table - Brake System - Service Manual
Thanks for that. That makes me hopeful it is indeed just air in the lines. Because everything else in that list doesn't add up. Unless it is the booster or master. But I believe someone said that would throw a code at me if it were that which I'm not getting?
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Old 02-18-2021, 08:13 AM #25
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It may be possible that by compressing the brake pistons without opening the master cylinder fill cap that a check valve was damaged at the booster. That is the only other thing I can think of, but not sure if that would cause your symptoms. Bleed first, then take to shop, or just take to shop and let them figure it out. Brakes are not something I would take a chance with given the risks of failure or causing an accident. If anything, you'll have more knowledge by the end of figuring it out and can use it next time you do the pads. My pads easily last 100k. I'm at 215k and on my 3rd set of the good OEM pads. I think they are great!
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Old 02-18-2021, 01:00 PM #26
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It may be possible that by compressing the brake pistons without opening the master cylinder fill cap that a check valve was damaged at the booster. That is the only other thing I can think of, but not sure if that would cause your symptoms. Bleed first, then take to shop, or just take to shop and let them figure it out. Brakes are not something I would take a chance with given the risks of failure or causing an accident. If anything, you'll have more knowledge by the end of figuring it out and can use it next time you do the pads. My pads easily last 100k. I'm at 215k and on my 3rd set of the good OEM pads. I think they are great!
I'm taking it to a shop tomorrow. Driving the other vehicle I have for now. Headed there early in the AM when the streets are still pretty quiet so if God forbid something happens I should be able to just go onto the sidewalk, but I think I can make it there without any issues.
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Old 02-18-2021, 01:51 PM #27
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I went with Remmen Brakes.
1) If these are high mileage, low dust, and low wear pads, they'll have worse bite and feel than stock.

2) If you didn't clean the rotor of its rust inhibitor, the material is now in the pads and will result in terrible bite/feel until that material is burned off.

3) Did you install all the correct shims when installing the pads? If you didn't add the shims, that too will make brake pedal travel longer.

4) Bedding, bedding, bedding. I can't stress this enough. Soft, spongy, brake feel after a pad change is normal, especially if you did both pads and rotors. A drive around the block isn't going to make that feel go away. YOU MUST get the pads and rotors hot to properly bed them in and make them come to life.

When a car is made, it is immediately taken out and drive a couple miles to bed the brakes as well as make sure everything works ok. When a shop does your brakes, they do the same because people would crap their pants if they felt how bad braking is after a pad/rotor change. It really doesn't take much to bed pads/rotors and wake them up.
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Old 02-18-2021, 01:58 PM #28
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1) If these are high mileage, low dust, and low wear pads, they'll have worse bite and feel than stock.

2) If you didn't clean the rotor of its rust inhibitor, the material is now in the pads and will result in terrible bite/feel until that material is burned off.

3) Did you install all the correct shims when installing the pads? If you didn't add the shims, that too will make brake pedal travel longer.

4) Bedding, bedding, bedding. I can't stress this enough. Soft, spongy, brake feel after a pad change is normal, especially if you did both pads and rotors. A drive around the block isn't going to make that feel go away. YOU MUST get the pads and rotors hot to properly bed them in and make them come to life.

When a car is made, it is immediately taken out and drive a couple miles to bed the brakes as well as make sure everything works ok. When a shop does your brakes, they do the same because people would crap their pants if they felt how bad braking is after a pad/rotor change. It really doesn't take much to bed pads/rotors and wake them up.
They are their off-road brake setup that has superior braking from what I've found and people who I know running them have told me.

I did use brake cleaner to get rid of the film put over the rotors. Had to clean them each for a couple of minutes to get it all off.

Installed the factory Toyota shims, new ones, with the brakes. They said they didn't need them, but if I wanted to install them it would be more than fine.

Good to know. If it isn't air in the lines, perhaps it is indeed the bedding in required. I've only driven it around the block twice. Hated how it felt, but perhaps it just needs to get them in.
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Old 02-18-2021, 06:43 PM #29
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If no lines were removed from the calipers you shouldn't have air in the system. If lines were off and the system was not bled... Well you definitely have air in the lines. There are certainly codes for errors in the ABS and traction control systems from wheel speed and motion sensors but nothing for a regular brake job or air in the lines. Sometimes if air gets introduced into the ABS pump it's quite difficult to get it bled out without a scan tool that can put the pump/valve assembly into "service mode" so it can be bled. However luckily on Toyotas if you can find a loose surface (or ice) and get the ABS system to cycle a half dozen times it often works itself out. I had to do that after a master cylinder replacement on my last 05 Tacoma. My scan tool reads ABS/Traction control codes but doesn't put the system in service mode.
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Old 02-18-2021, 06:57 PM #30
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If no lines were removed from the calipers you shouldn't have air in the system. If lines were off and the system was not bled... Well you definitely have air in the lines. There are certainly codes for errors in the ABS and traction control systems from wheel speed and motion sensors but nothing for a regular brake job or air in the lines. Sometimes if air gets introduced into the ABS pump it's quite difficult to get it bled out without a scan tool that can put the pump/valve assembly into "service mode" so it can be bled. However luckily on Toyotas if you can find a loose surface (or ice) and get the ABS system to cycle a half dozen times it often works itself out. I had to do that after a master cylinder replacement on my last 05 Tacoma. My scan tool reads ABS/Traction control codes but doesn't put the system in service mode.
Yeah. My guess is the brakes were never bled and air is in the system. Know for sure tomorrow morning. Going to inspect everything one more time, then if all is well from a second set of eyes, flush the lines with new brake fluid. Fingers crossed it's that easy.
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