User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-20-2021, 01:08 PM #1
umidkusername umidkusername is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 193
umidkusername will become famous soon enough
umidkusername umidkusername is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 193
umidkusername will become famous soon enough
Upgrading Batteries Questions

Upgrading the battery and have a few questions:

1). The 2020 (and probably all 5Gen) is a liquid acid battery. Some people when putting in an AGM battery are reporting a premature death because of alternator/AGM battery incompatibility. Do you think this is a 4Gen and lower problem? Any reports of this happening in 5Gen 4Runners?

2). Is this an alternator issue? Does the 5Gen alternator only work with certain batteries? Is there a best type of battery for the alternator that's in the 4Runner?

2). If I decide to stick with liquid acid, should my secondary battery also be a liquid acid or is it ok for the second battery for accessories to be an AGM?

3). What is the best battery type for accessories?
umidkusername is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-20-2021, 04:05 PM #2
jp.vegas jp.vegas is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 434
jp.vegas has a spectacular aura about jp.vegas has a spectacular aura about
jp.vegas jp.vegas is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 434
jp.vegas has a spectacular aura about jp.vegas has a spectacular aura about
It's not a 4th or 5th get issue, it's an all cars issue. The voltage needed to fully charge an AGM battery is higher than that needed to charge a lead acid battery. Since the voltage isn't high enough, the AGM never gets completely charged and that's what causes premature death.

There are a variety of solutions to the low voltage problem.
__________________
'20 Army Green 4Runner TRD PRO
'16 Quicksand Tundra TRD PRO Gone
'08 Salsa Red Pearl 4x4Runner SE V6:
Gone
jp.vegas is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-21-2021, 12:45 PM #3
fkheath fkheath is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Utah
Posts: 489
fkheath has a spectacular aura about fkheath has a spectacular aura about fkheath has a spectacular aura about
fkheath fkheath is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Utah
Posts: 489
fkheath has a spectacular aura about fkheath has a spectacular aura about fkheath has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp.vegas View Post
It's not a 4th or 5th get issue, it's an all cars issue. The voltage needed to fully charge an AGM battery is higher than that needed to charge a lead acid battery. Since the voltage isn't high enough, the AGM never gets completely charged and that's what causes premature death.

There are a variety of solutions to the low voltage problem.
It is a misconception that AGM batteries need a higher voltage to charge. From the Battery University: "AGM is making inroads into the start-stop function of cars. ... As with all gelled and sealed units, AGM batteries are sensitive to overcharging. A charge to 2.40V/cell (and higher) is fine; however, the float charge should be reduced to between 2.25 and 2.30V/cell (summer temperatures may require lower voltages)."

Thus 2.4 volts/cell is 14.4 volts for the normal 6 cell car battery, which is what the nominal car alternator puts out. Those that put voltage boosters on their alternator are thus overcharging an AGM battery which is what leads to their early failure.

Also, note that the maximum float charge should be less than 2.3 volts/cell (13.8 volts for 6 cell car battery) is below the nominal alternator voltage. Thus, after an AGM battery is fully charged, the alternator voltage will be overcharging the AGM battery.

Last edited by fkheath; 02-21-2021 at 12:51 PM.
fkheath is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-21-2021, 01:08 PM #4
MAST4R's Avatar
MAST4R MAST4R is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: AZ
Posts: 1,059
MAST4R is a splendid one to behold MAST4R is a splendid one to behold MAST4R is a splendid one to behold MAST4R is a splendid one to behold MAST4R is a splendid one to behold MAST4R is a splendid one to behold MAST4R is a splendid one to behold
MAST4R MAST4R is offline
Senior Member
MAST4R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: AZ
Posts: 1,059
MAST4R is a splendid one to behold MAST4R is a splendid one to behold MAST4R is a splendid one to behold MAST4R is a splendid one to behold MAST4R is a splendid one to behold MAST4R is a splendid one to behold MAST4R is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by fkheath View Post
It is a misconception that AGM batteries need a higher voltage to charge. From the Battery University: "AGM is making inroads into the start-stop function of cars. ... As with all gelled and sealed units, AGM batteries are sensitive to overcharging. A charge to 2.40V/cell (and higher) is fine; however, the float charge should be reduced to between 2.25 and 2.30V/cell (summer temperatures may require lower voltages)."

Thus 2.4 volts/cell is 14.4 volts for the normal 6 cell car battery, which is what the nominal car alternator puts out. Those that put voltage boosters on their alternator are thus overcharging an AGM battery which is what leads to their early failure.

Also, note that the maximum float charge should be less than 2.3 volts/cell (13.8 volts for 6 cell car battery) is below the nominal alternator voltage. Thus, after an AGM battery is fully charged, the alternator voltage will be overcharging the AGM battery.
Thanks for this.

I exchanged emails with Enersys and they said I am fine with an Odyssey battery as is. They also said that to another forum member years ago and he has had no issues last time he talked about it.

They also said that overcharging is a problem while undercharging, while not optimal, is not a serious issue: simply reduces the capacity somewhat.
__________________
2018 TRD OP non-kdss, well armored, well used
(6112s/650lb at 1.25" lift, Icon 2.0 (to be replaced) and Eibach 1" rear springs, Mickey Thompson ATZ P3 LTE 265 70 17, RCI set of front 3/16 skids, Shrockworks step sliders and 3/16 steel gas tank skid, C4Fab rear diff skid, Rockmen rear LCAs, Total Chaos rear LCA bracket skids, Diode Dynamics SS3 white fog lights).

Last edited by MAST4R; 02-21-2021 at 01:11 PM.
MAST4R is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-21-2021, 01:28 PM #5
jp.vegas jp.vegas is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 434
jp.vegas has a spectacular aura about jp.vegas has a spectacular aura about
jp.vegas jp.vegas is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 434
jp.vegas has a spectacular aura about jp.vegas has a spectacular aura about
Your alternator probably doesn't output over 14 volts reliably or consistently, especially with the higher current draw that an AGM will place when charging, at least at the start of the cycle. The current draw will rise as the voltage drops, and that can risk other damage. I’ve datalogged the voltage from my 5th and it’s barely 14 volts when cold, less when warm.

This thread has great info and empirical data: The NorthStar AGM Battery + Voltage Booster Upgrade | Tacoma World
__________________
'20 Army Green 4Runner TRD PRO
'16 Quicksand Tundra TRD PRO Gone
'08 Salsa Red Pearl 4x4Runner SE V6:
Gone
jp.vegas is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-21-2021, 04:47 PM #6
Chrisb009 Chrisb009 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Richmond VA
Posts: 37
Chrisb009 is on a distinguished road
Chrisb009 Chrisb009 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Richmond VA
Posts: 37
Chrisb009 is on a distinguished road
I have AGMís in most every vehicle with the exception of the 4runner. Never have had any issues with charging off the factory alternator.

-Chris
__________________
2020 4Runner Limited, 2018 RAV4 SE, 2008 F450 KR, 2003 Silverado 2500HD D/A
2018 Kawakasi KLR650, 2009 Kawasaki 650R, 2007 Yamaha FJR1300
2013 40' FR 5th Wheel Toy Hauler, 2021 20 ft HD Car Hauler
1985 CJ7 Awaiting Restoration
Mahindra 2645 Cab pst
Chrisb009 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-21-2021, 07:40 PM #7
rdruss's Avatar
rdruss rdruss is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: illinois
Posts: 690
Real Name: Ron
rdruss is a jewel in the rough rdruss is a jewel in the rough rdruss is a jewel in the rough
rdruss rdruss is offline
Member
rdruss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: illinois
Posts: 690
Real Name: Ron
rdruss is a jewel in the rough rdruss is a jewel in the rough rdruss is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisb009 View Post
I have AGMís in most every vehicle with the exception of the 4runner. Never have had any issues with charging off the factory alternator.

-Chris
What's your oldest AGM?
rdruss is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Tags
5gen , acid , alternator , battery , liquid

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Questions on upgrading to aftermarket stock length LCA darrensan 5th gen T4Rs 5 06-10-2020 03:42 PM
X2Power AGM Batteries on sale at Batteries + Bulbs eddielasvegas Group Buys 6 01-29-2020 12:36 AM
Upgrading Suspension - Have a few questions Dunngeon 4th Gen T4Rs 12 12-24-2014 11:22 PM
Questions about upgrading to 35's OCMEDIC 4th Gen T4Rs 1 11-03-2013 07:08 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:53 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
***This site is an unofficial Toyota site, and is not officially endorsed, supported, authorized by or affiliated with Toyota. All company, product, or service names references in this web site are used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Toyota name, marks, designs and logos, as well as Toyota model names, are registered trademarks of Toyota Motor Corporation***Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
Copyright © 2020