User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-01-2021, 02:00 PM #31
Charles Bronson Charles Bronson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Earth
Posts: 57
Charles Bronson is on a distinguished road
Charles Bronson Charles Bronson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Earth
Posts: 57
Charles Bronson is on a distinguished road
Update:

We drove home yesterday and the wind was blowing slightly harder out of the north; still a heavy cross/head wind (15 to 20 mph).

This time around, I turned off cruise control and drove through the hills for the hour. During the inclines, I'd squeeze the gas just enough to get the torque converter to unlock in 5th. It was plenty of extra torque multiplication to go up all but a couple of the steeper hills which required a downshift into 4th.

I completely understand that the headwind definitely isn't helping here at all and is contributing to the issue. My frustration is that Toyota's shift logic while in cruise control almost always bypasses 5th gear TC unlock goes directly for the downshift. Why? It seems so simple a fix on their end. There are all sorts of sensors and vacuum systems that can help the ECU determine when to unlock the TC and when to downshift. Clearly the ECU has no issues when the driver is in full control and everything operates the way it should for a 2020 year vehicle.

I knew of the complaints of gear hunting with 4runners/Tacoma, but my God, I had no idea it was this bad. I rented tons of cars, trucks, and SUVs because of my job. I've rented and drove all across this country. I've never driven a vehicle with such poor shift logic.

This gear hunting issue is only compounded by the TRD Pro exhaust my wife really wanted. The downshift into 4th puts the exhaust right in the drone range of 3,000rpms under load. I wasn't for the exhaust because of my prior experience with exhausts on V6s and long geared automatics but it's her truck. She doesn't mind the sound even when droning up the hills, but I do feel bad for my kids in the back seat. I keep the stock exhaust boxed up in the basement with hopes she'll change her mind at some point

I do have concerns about taking the 4runner across KS into CO. Lots of cross winds and elevation change (800' in Kansas City to 4,800' at the KS west border).

I love the truck, but damn, there are definitely compromises (more so than I imagined). I have a feeling I'll need to drive without cruise in these situations.

It's too bad Toyota couldn't figure out a way to fit the 6AT from the Tundra or the 8AT from the Lexus vehicles into this truck. I don't think the power is lacking. The issue is lack of gears and shift logic.

Last edited by Charles Bronson; 03-01-2021 at 02:04 PM.
Charles Bronson is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 02:23 PM #32
02SE 02SE is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Here, There..
Posts: 3,326
02SE is a jewel in the rough 02SE is a jewel in the rough 02SE is a jewel in the rough 02SE is a jewel in the rough
02SE 02SE is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Here, There..
Posts: 3,326
02SE is a jewel in the rough 02SE is a jewel in the rough 02SE is a jewel in the rough 02SE is a jewel in the rough
It's a heavy, un-aerodynamic vehicle with a 4 liter V6. Regardless of the number of gears in the transmission, the transmission will always try to be in the highest gear on the highway for fuel economy. That means the RPM will be low, where the engine just isn't making enough power to handle grades, or headwinds, without downshifting to bring the RPM up to where the engine does make enough power to maintain speed.

That's why a Supercharger allows the transmission to stay in overdrive more often, despite grades, or headwinds. With the Supercharger, the engine makes enough power at low RPM to maintain speed in overdrive.

It is what it is.
02SE is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 02:54 PM #33
mteolus's Avatar
mteolus mteolus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,503
mteolus is a splendid one to behold mteolus is a splendid one to behold mteolus is a splendid one to behold mteolus is a splendid one to behold mteolus is a splendid one to behold mteolus is a splendid one to behold mteolus is a splendid one to behold
mteolus mteolus is offline
Senior Member
mteolus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,503
mteolus is a splendid one to behold mteolus is a splendid one to behold mteolus is a splendid one to behold mteolus is a splendid one to behold mteolus is a splendid one to behold mteolus is a splendid one to behold mteolus is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by spartacus View Post
I drive mountain roads all the time and I like the shift points. locking and unlocking torque converter creates heat which reduces Tranny life so staying in 4 is like driving a stick. Also going down grades in lower gear keeps the speed in check and lessen the chance of brakes overheating.
Using your transmission as a brake going downhill actually causes your transmission to wear out faster.
__________________
2017 Off-road Premium w KDSS, moon roof, sliding rear cargo deck,3" Toytech Boss lift, SPC upper control arms, Sonoran Steel High Articulation KDSS Trac/PanHard Bar, RCI sliders, RCI skid plates aluminum including gas tank, C4 Fab diff skid plate, SCS Ray 10 Wheels Matte Gray, 285/70R17 Hankook Dynapro AT2 RF11 E-load RWL, Cali Raised LED 3x2 fog-light pods, Lock'r Down EXxtreme console safe with electronic lock, Auto Heat Shield all windows, Raingler rear cargo net, Canvasback rear covers, LFD Off-Road cross bars aluminum, LFD Hybrid bumper, LFD wind fairing, LFD Hi-lift jack mounts, Goat Armor, Blackgate Custom KDSS spacers, Ironman 2.5 awning with quick release mounts, Ironman 12,000 lb synthetic line winch.
mteolus is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 03:43 PM #34
Whippersnapper02's Avatar
Whippersnapper02 Whippersnapper02 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: OC, Derpifornia
Age: 37
Posts: 693
Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light
Whippersnapper02 Whippersnapper02 is offline
Member
Whippersnapper02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: OC, Derpifornia
Age: 37
Posts: 693
Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3kushn View Post
My mistake, I was thinking there would be an MTS setting that could help but looks like this feature is only used at crawl speeds. I don't have MTS so didn't know till I looked at it closer after your comment.
Oh nah. That's just volume control for the traction control.
__________________
2019 Runner TRD Offroad Premium w/KDSS
Whippersnapper02 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 04:16 PM #35
sme11 sme11 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: southeast
Posts: 5
sme11 is on a distinguished road
sme11 sme11 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: southeast
Posts: 5
sme11 is on a distinguished road
My problem with the shift logic is how quickly the car upshifts when getting up to speed during a highway merge. I continue to press the throttle but the 4runner just upshifts to 3rd or 4th gear, taking the engine right out of the power band. Shifting to "S" works slightly better, but the same behavior can be observed.
sme11 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 04:33 PM #36
Charles Bronson Charles Bronson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Earth
Posts: 57
Charles Bronson is on a distinguished road
Charles Bronson Charles Bronson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Earth
Posts: 57
Charles Bronson is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by mteolus View Post
Using your transmission as a brake going downhill actually causes your transmission to wear out faster.
How? The compression of the motor is doing much of the work and there's not much load on the transmission as the motor isn't creating any power (injectors are turned off under engine braking).

Engine braking is a preferred way to control downhill speed because if you ride the brakes for a long duration of time, you may be met with brake fade when you really need them.
Charles Bronson is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 04:38 PM #37
Whippersnapper02's Avatar
Whippersnapper02 Whippersnapper02 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: OC, Derpifornia
Age: 37
Posts: 693
Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light
Whippersnapper02 Whippersnapper02 is offline
Member
Whippersnapper02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: OC, Derpifornia
Age: 37
Posts: 693
Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light Whippersnapper02 is a glorious beacon of light
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Bronson View Post
How? The compression of the motor is doing much of the work and there's not much load on the transmission as the motor isn't creating any power (injectors are turned off under engine braking).

Engine braking is a preferred way to control downhill speed because if you ride the brakes for a long duration of time, you may be met with brake fade when you really need them.
You do wear down the clutches a little more than normal. I usually blip the throttle half a second or so after downshifting so that the engine speed doesn't have to be brought up.
__________________
2019 Runner TRD Offroad Premium w/KDSS
Whippersnapper02 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 04:56 PM #38
Charles Bronson Charles Bronson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Earth
Posts: 57
Charles Bronson is on a distinguished road
Charles Bronson Charles Bronson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Earth
Posts: 57
Charles Bronson is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by 02SE View Post
It's a heavy, un-aerodynamic vehicle with a 4 liter V6. Regardless of the number of gears in the transmission, the transmission will always try to be in the highest gear on the highway for fuel economy. That means the RPM will be low, where the engine just isn't making enough power to handle grades, or headwinds, without downshifting to bring the RPM up to where the engine does make enough power to maintain speed.
The extra torque multiplication of additional gears would keep the motor from having to work so hard and consume fuel like it does. A well geared 6+ speed auto and direct fuel injection would improve mpgs of the 4runner 20%+ and improve acceleration as well. It would also help find a better gear ratio on inclines and keep from increasing rpms by over 1,000rpms on a single gear downshift.

Toyota is ultra conservative and runs their models into the ground before making a drivetrain change. That is especially the case with their trucks. The only thing that really keeps them in the game is their reliability, especially with the Tacoma and 4runner. It is certainly not their drivetrain performance or amenities.

I love the simplicity and reliability of the 4runner, but damn, they could have updated the drivetrain at least once between 2010 and now and made their trucks even more desirable and competitive. Everyone, and I mean everyone, updates their drivetrains every 3 to 5 years.
Charles Bronson is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 05:05 PM #39
rightyouareken's Avatar
rightyouareken rightyouareken is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 351
rightyouareken has a spectacular aura about rightyouareken has a spectacular aura about rightyouareken has a spectacular aura about
rightyouareken rightyouareken is offline
Member
rightyouareken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 351
rightyouareken has a spectacular aura about rightyouareken has a spectacular aura about rightyouareken has a spectacular aura about
FWIW my 2nd gen Tacoma (2011) had the same issue. But if you think that's bad, throw a camping trailer behind it, LOL. Had a time going to Yellowstone with it where I was trying to maintain a reasonable speed on the highway (55-60 mph) in Montana into a stiff headwind and instead of bouncing between 4th and 5th, it was bouncing between 2nd and 3rd! The sound was horrendous and it felt like I was killing the dang thing. After that trip I traded it in on a 5.0 V8 F150 which towed light years better.
__________________
2020 4Runner Venture
2002 4Runner SR5 4WD (sold)
1998 BMW M3/4/5
rightyouareken is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 05:06 PM #40
spartacus's Avatar
spartacus spartacus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: denver
Posts: 1,812
spartacus is a name known to all spartacus is a name known to all spartacus is a name known to all spartacus is a name known to all spartacus is a name known to all spartacus is a name known to all
spartacus spartacus is offline
Senior Member
spartacus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: denver
Posts: 1,812
spartacus is a name known to all spartacus is a name known to all spartacus is a name known to all spartacus is a name known to all spartacus is a name known to all spartacus is a name known to all
Quote:
Originally Posted by mteolus View Post
Using your transmission as a brake going downhill actually causes your transmission to wear out faster.
Very good explanation by @Charles Bronson in post #26
spartacus is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 05:06 PM #41
RedSled's Avatar
RedSled RedSled is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,005
RedSled will become famous soon enough RedSled will become famous soon enough
RedSled RedSled is offline
Senior Member
RedSled's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,005
RedSled will become famous soon enough RedSled will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Bronson View Post
The extra torque multiplication of additional gears would keep the motor from having to work so hard and consume fuel like it does. A well geared 6+ speed auto and direct fuel injection would improve mpgs of the 4runner 20%+ and improve acceleration as well. It would also help find a better gear ratio on inclines and keep from increasing rpms by over 1,000rpms on a single gear downshift.

Toyota is ultra conservative and runs their models into the ground before making a drivetrain change. That is especially the case with their trucks. The only thing that really keeps them in the game is their reliability, especially with the Tacoma and 4runner. It is certainly not their drivetrain performance or amenities.

I love the simplicity and reliability of the 4runner, but damn, they could have updated the drivetrain at least once between 2010 and now and made their trucks even more desirable and competitive. Everyone, and I mean everyone, updates their drivetrains every 3 to 5 years.
The reason they update every 5 yrs is because they keep having warranty work on them, and they canít keep them on the road. This is just me, but i have no problem with this tranny, i shift when i need to and enjoy the probability that my trans. Is going to get me home.
__________________
2017 Silver SR5 Premium
Vietnam 67-68

Greed and corruption are rampant.
RedSled is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 05:18 PM #42
justanothereric justanothereric is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 40
justanothereric is on a distinguished road
justanothereric justanothereric is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 40
justanothereric is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Bronson View Post

I love the simplicity and reliability of the 4runner, but damn, they could have updated the drivetrain at least once between 2010 and now and made their trucks even more desirable and competitive. Everyone, and I mean everyone, updates their drivetrains every 3 to 5 years.
I most definitely agree with this. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," can only be used for so long. 10 years maintaining the same powertrain in an industry where technology is advancing so quickly across the entire board amongst manufactures is not going to cut it. Ye,t I purchased a 2021 4Runner and have the same complaint as OP. so LOL.

My transmission consistently hunts between 4th and 5th ESPCIALLY when I'm using the adaptive cruise control and the incline grade slightly changes.

Does anyone know if there's a way to use the cruise control without it being dynamic and adjusting speed/distance? I just want an old school locked speed cruise control..
justanothereric is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 05:22 PM #43
02SE 02SE is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Here, There..
Posts: 3,326
02SE is a jewel in the rough 02SE is a jewel in the rough 02SE is a jewel in the rough 02SE is a jewel in the rough
02SE 02SE is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Here, There..
Posts: 3,326
02SE is a jewel in the rough 02SE is a jewel in the rough 02SE is a jewel in the rough 02SE is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Bronson View Post
The extra torque multiplication of additional gears would keep the motor from having to work so hard and consume fuel like it does. A well geared 6+ speed auto and direct fuel injection would improve mpgs of the 4runner 20%+ and improve acceleration as well. It would also help find a better gear ratio on inclines and keep from increasing rpms by over 1,000rpms on a single gear downshift.

Toyota is ultra conservative and runs their models into the ground before making a drivetrain change. That is especially the case with their trucks. The only thing that really keeps them in the game is their reliability, especially with the Tacoma and 4runner. It is certainly not their drivetrain performance or amenities.

I love the simplicity and reliability of the 4runner, but damn, they could have updated the drivetrain at least once between 2010 and now and made their trucks even more desirable and competitive. Everyone, and I mean everyone, updates their drivetrains every 3 to 5 years.
True, more gears means the potential for a better ratio for any given situation.

However, my point was that if the 5 speed auto and a 10 speed auto have the same overall ratio in their highest gear, and the same engine providing the power, both will downshift to get the engine RPM up to where the engine can maintain speed on a grade, against a headwind, higher speeds, or all of the above.

We have several grossly overpowered vehicles that can maintain speed in top gear on any highway. They are lots of fun for what they are.

The 4Runner is not overpowered, and makes due with it's 5 speed A750F transmission. Why I have it is because it's a great 4wd trail vehicle, and it's track record of reliability.
02SE is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 05:55 PM #44
gbarr gbarr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: colorado
Posts: 81
gbarr is on a distinguished road
gbarr gbarr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: colorado
Posts: 81
gbarr is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanothereric View Post
I most definitely agree with this. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," can only be used for so long. 10 years maintaining the same powertrain in an industry where technology is advancing so quickly across the entire board amongst manufactures is not going to cut it. Ye,t I purchased a 2021 4Runner and have the same complaint as OP. so LOL.

My transmission consistently hunts between 4th and 5th ESPCIALLY when I'm using the adaptive cruise control and the incline grade slightly changes.

Does anyone know if there's a way to use the cruise control without it being dynamic and adjusting speed/distance? I just want an old school locked speed cruise control..
I have owned 3 4Runners, an 04 V8 4wd, 14 v6 4wd and 17v6 4wd, al three acted as discribed on the highway in hilly country i.e. always hunting between 4th an5th and not wanting to shift back to 5th when they should. That said, not sure if new 4 Runners work like my wifes 19 Highlander v6 but with it if you hold in the cc button in for 5 seconds magically you are in reg old cruise control not The assisted kind that brakes for you or keeps a constant distance relative to the car in front of you, maybe this helps maybe not.
gbarr is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 06:39 PM #45
Charles Bronson Charles Bronson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Earth
Posts: 57
Charles Bronson is on a distinguished road
Charles Bronson Charles Bronson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Earth
Posts: 57
Charles Bronson is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by 02SE View Post
Why I have it is because it's a great 4wd trail vehicle, and it's track record of reliability.
All very true. It's basically like a hammer. Simple and effective. The 4runner, Tacoma, and Land Cruiser have a reputation to keep and when you're in the middle of nowhere on the trails, these are the trucks you want for sure.
Charles Bronson is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Tags
4th , 5th , converter , hills , torque

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Any Mechanical/Industrial/Hydrulic Engineer looking for entry level Engineer 71gs3504sp Off Topic 3 07-21-2020 07:22 AM
a message to the toyota engineer that designed grill clips baja1 3rd gen T4Rs 18 06-11-2015 11:07 PM
Engineer needed cozza Australia 2 08-14-2012 06:17 AM
Ask a tire engineer JB. General Discussions 8 03-09-2012 01:08 PM
Labor Bureau: Japanese Man, Toyota's Top Car Engineer Died Of Overwork icantsee General Discussions 3 07-16-2008 11:07 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:04 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
***This site is an unofficial Toyota site, and is not officially endorsed, supported, authorized by or affiliated with Toyota. All company, product, or service names references in this web site are used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Toyota name, marks, designs and logos, as well as Toyota model names, are registered trademarks of Toyota Motor Corporation***Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
Copyright © 2020