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Old 03-04-2021, 09:38 PM #31
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I came from Jeepís to the 4 Runner, and yes the Toyota is way more comfortable and reliable them my Jeepís were, although that being said I never had any major issues with the Jeep.
Unfortunately I may have to return to the Jeepís as my wife and I need something to flat tow behind the motor home and I didnít do my research with the 4Runners not being able to flat tow. Bummer.
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Old 03-05-2021, 12:54 AM #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tls3601 View Post
I think we would all agree we need a modern FJ40 or FJ80 with a removable top🥶
What Toyota needs to do is reintroduce the FJ Cruiser. I think they were crazy to stop producing it or at least to not have brought it back by now. The resale market of 10+ year old FJ's is still pretty impressive.
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Old 03-05-2021, 02:08 AM #33
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Anyone jump from a TRD Pro to a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited with 3.6L V6

Our current setup is a 2017 TRD Pro 4R and 2020 Gladiator Rubicon. So not a Wrangler, but they are fairly similar, especially inside and power train.

Iíve put 90k miles on the 4R in 4 years, several multi-thousand road trips. Averages about 18mpg. Stock suspension and tire size. Iíve taken it on Black Bear, Imogene, Mineral Pass, and a few Moab trails. As long as you are reasonable with your trails and pick your lines, the 4R can handle its own. While I agree that the 4R is underpowered, I donít expect it to be a sports car and it doesnít really bother me. I find the Jeep seats to be more comfortable so far. I feel like the interior plastics are a little chintzy. I honestly feel like the biggest changes from my first gen Tacoma are a backup camera and Bluetooth. I plan on putting 200k+ miles on it.

The Gladiator is running 4.10 gears, 37s and a 2Ē lift. Averages about 16.5mpg. It honestly surprises me how lively it feels when I merge onto the highway. Again, itís not my sport car and I donít drive fast, but it feels faster than the 4R. Interior quality seems to be much better than previous years, and it rides smoother (still a Jeep). A bit more cabin noise than the 4R at higher speeds. The 3.6 has been in the Wrangler since 2012 and has done fairly well thus far. HVAC and heated seats in the Jeep blows the 4R out of the water. Same with the factory LEDs (compared to halogen on 4R), Infotainment and backup camera. Hoping to get the Gladiator to Ouray/Moab this year. Iíll keep it for the foreseeable future, due to the stigma of reliability I am less optimistic.

Introduce yourself and post in the JLforums and youíll have people give the opposite story of this thread.
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2017 T4R TRD Pro Cement - A few things here and there

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Old 03-05-2021, 02:12 AM #34
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I'll just point out that in my area we get a LOT of Jeep trade-ins, that get resold only to be either back in the shop for more repairs because stuff is always leaking, breaking, and/or just not working; or they just trade them back in and grab a 4Runner, Tundra, or Tacoma and rinse and repeat.

Jeep's SFA set-up is nice and some of their features are nice... but it's still a Fiat at the end of the day.

Let me put it this way, Chrysler was such a phenomenal company they went bankrupt, were bought out by the US government, went bankrupt again, and bought by Fiat. So, you get what you pay for when you buy a domestic Fiat.

I will also point out that a few years ago we had a parts guy that transferred to our dealer, he told us they stocked full, ready to bolt-on cylinderheads for the V6 on the shelves because they got sold/used that often.

~

If I had a choice, I'd take a Wrangler Unlimited; rip out all the electronics, the engine, transmission, and rebuild both the front and rear axles so the damn things won't leak all over the place. I feel like the frame body, axles, and maybe the glass is decent enough quality to keep.
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Old 03-05-2021, 10:43 AM #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tls3601 View Post
Has anyone been able to run 285’s on stock Pro rims without a body mount chop AND without rubbing anywhere? If you have please share with us your setup. I am sure many of us would like this info. Thanks.
Yes.
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Anyone jump from a TRD Pro to a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited with 3.6L V6-09a80c35-82db-4031-9ae7-ee6636029b42-jpg 

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Old 03-05-2021, 12:43 PM #36
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Let me put it this way, Chrysler was such a phenomenal company they went bankrupt, were bought out by the US government, went bankrupt again, and bought by Fiat. So, you get what you pay for when you buy a domestic Fiat.
You forgot a few others that owned Jeep. Back in the '80s, they were owned by Renault. My '89 Cherokee had many French parts that had terribly reliability problems. Then after the US Government ownership, they were owned by Mercedes (Daimler) for a short while. Mercedes dumped them to Fiat.
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Old 03-05-2021, 12:51 PM #37
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My biggest complaint with the Wrangler Unlimited (four door), and the Gladiator is the longer wheel base. If you do trails with sharp switch backs as I do, you simply cannot get around them with a single pass; you always have to back up to make the curve. Same problem with pickup trucks. The Tacoma has essentially the same running gear as the 4Runner, but with the bed (and crew cab), a longer wheel base is needed, thus a lot of zig-zag to get around a sharp curve.
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Old 03-05-2021, 04:51 PM #38
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Quote:
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You forgot a few others that owned Jeep. Back in the '80s, they were owned by Renault. My '89 Cherokee had many French parts that had terribly reliability problems. Then after the US Government ownership, they were owned by Mercedes (Daimler) for a short while. Mercedes dumped them to Fiat.
What do you mean? Not everyone loved the BA-10 trans and Renix cooling? 87-91 were a few rough years there for Jeep...
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Old 03-05-2021, 04:51 PM #39
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Originally Posted by tls3601 View Post
The Pro is a great vehicle but I have come to realize it just is not as capable in stock trim as a Rubicon Unlimited. Also it appears that to go to a 285 tire (33Ē) surgery in the form of a body chop is necessary to clear without rubbing. Then you have a vehicle that still only has a 3.73 axle and will still have worse clearances (approach, departure, break over) than a stock Rubicon Unlimited. So I am wondering if anyone has moved to the Rubicon and what they think? Just seems crazy to cut a $50K truck then you still end up with a vehicle less capable than Rubicon. I donít want to be speaking heresy but would appreciate any opinions. Thank you.
I've had multiple Jeeps and had problems with all of them. I don't miss them at all. The 4R might not be as capable but it is 100% better built and rides way better.
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Old 03-05-2021, 07:17 PM #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrub1 View Post
Yes.
16 pro
2.5 lift
SPC UCA
RG's
Please excuse my ignorance but what are RGís? And whose lift did you use? Thanks.
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Old 03-05-2021, 11:07 PM #41
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Nitto Ridge Grapplers 285/70/17 -C load.
I had Bilstein 5100's with OME spring (887 front) 295e(?) rear and also ran Icon stage 3 at one point.
Best bang for the buck is the Bilstein/OME set up.
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Old 03-06-2021, 12:44 AM #42
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FWIW, I came from a JK to my TRDOR. In fact, with only 29k miles it was at the dealer having a new engine head installed along with another recall being done when I was buying my wife's Camry. It wasn't hard for them to talk me into the 4runner.

I tried really hard to like my Jeep but, in the end, it leaked, the paint was bubbling around the hinges, paint on the hard top was bubbling, multiple recalls, etc... My vehicle isn't a daily driver and they are very well maintained. I just got so sick of having it at the dealer.
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Old 06-04-2021, 10:18 PM #43
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I traded my capable but troublesome JKU Rubi for the 4Runner I have now.

Definitely a big step down in capability. As I'm reminded every time I find myself with one or two wheels off the ground. But I was knowingly trading capability for a more refined vehicle and sterling reliability. Or so I thought...

Unfortunately, I'm one of the people with trouble getting their 4Runner wheels balanced, so the highway ride quality has often been lacking. Constant steering wheel shimmy at highway speed gets old after a few 10K miles. (Now it's okay most of the time, long story.) I've also had a few other problems with the 4Runner.

So my trade-off hasn't fully worked out as I'd hoped. Though most of its shop time has been at a tire shop, not the dealer. And it hasn't left me stranded in the boonies as happened twice with the Heep...

With trade-in values being so high, I recently went looking at JLU Rubis. During a test drive, I found it refreshing to not have steering wheel shimmy at highway speed, despite the offroad 33's. But the wandering steering at moderate speeds was disconcerting. Then there's the reduced interior space. And the big one, which is the still-terrible reliability of Jeeps. I wondered if I was crazy even considering buying another Jeep, after all the problems with my first one.

Also, I again ran smack-dab into the dealers and their crappy practices. Including piling on over-priced crap (cough-KARR Alarm-cough). A local dealer has an inbound Rubi that is set up just as I'd like it: stripped down, except for auto trans and hardtop. But they won't sell it to me without that stupid aftermarket alarm and the overpriced wax job.

Speaking of quality, I gather from the JL forum that fuses and relays not seated properly in the block have been a problem for years. To the point that it's recommended if you buy a Wrangler, you should check all of them ASAP and make sure they're seated properly. If they're not, all sorts of weird issues can crop up. How can something like that be a problem for years?!

So, as much as I'd like to get back into something more capable, I doubt I'll be taking a plunge on a new Rubi.

Note the only engine options now for the Rubi with an auto trans are the 2L turbo and the diesel. The latter is a $4500 option.
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Old 06-04-2021, 11:56 PM #44
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I have a 2017 JKU. It is a beast off road. The short answer to the OPís question is yes the Rubicon is better off road.

That being said, Iím shopping for a 4Runner because despite how much I like my Wrangler, Iím tired of all the repairs.

Some people swear that the wranglers are reliable. A lot of people have no issues. Man, Iím not one of them.

Iím willing to give up some of the things I love about the Wrangler for the reliability of the 4Runner.

I donít want to wait around for the Bronco and Iím not interested in itís 4cylinder turbo. Nor was I impressed with videos of the Bronco doing the Rubicon Trail. It looked like it was struggling too much for me.

As for the eco diesel option on the Wrangler, check the Jeep forums for discussions related to that. A couple of people ran the numbers and found that it takes something like 40,000 miles before you start reaping savings from the increase in MPG. The eco diesel option costs $4,500 more. Diesel is more expensive than gas. Oil changes are very expensive and so on.

The 4xe is intriguing. You can do a lot of short trips on electric alone and people are reporting that they get 600 to 800 miles to a tank of gas. I think it costs around $65,000 though.

I give props to FCA for giving customers so many options in powertrains. An all electric wrangler is said to be in the works as well.

In the meantime, Iím shopping 4Runner.
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Old 06-05-2021, 12:16 AM #45
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About a year ago I sold my 18' TRD ORP with BP-51 Suspension for a 21' JLU Willys with the 3.0L Diesel. My main reason for the move was some boredom I had with the 4Runner and wanting something with more power.

The diesel puts out 260HP/442TQ @ 1,600 RPM, routed through a 8HP ZF transmission. I have to say, this oil burner is an absolute treat and is an completely different arena to the 4.0L. I averaged 14 MPG in the T4R, and now get 25 MPG on average in the JL. On top of that there's more torque than necessary and I can go up any hill regardless of speed and the RPM never waivers, even while towing at capacity. Tuning options recently released through Banks, puts 275HP and 460TQ to the wheels.. The post above mentioned the payback period, and by all means, you will not get a payback for the $6,000 up charge for a very long time. For me, it had nothing to do with MPG, but instead the torque advantages of driving a diesel. I personally don't care if this engine ever pays itself back, and I'd say that's how most owners look at it.

With that being said...the engine is the main thing I like about the Jeep. Yes, it has other perks compared to the T4R, but they're mainly just minor convenience items such as a better back-up camera resolution, heated steering wheel, but those are trivial for me.

What I miss most is the ride quality of the 4Runner and muted cabin. I knew it was going to be louder in the Wrangler, as I owned a JK Rubicon prior to the 4Runner. I just didn't realize how much I enjoyed the 4Runner on the expressway (after Vivid Racing tune). Also, maybe I'm just a bit cold, but this Jeep wave has gotten out of hand. There's a Wrangler around every corner anymore and if I were to follow the "code" I'd look like Flipper the seal as I drove around. . I understand there's a culture around it, but with so many on the road this trend needs to end. In the past the Wrangler was so civilian, it took a special person to drive one. Now they've been refined enough essentially anyone who likes the look is driving one, not because it's ever going to leave pavement.

Anyhow, I'm sure I'll keep the Wrangler purely because of the engine. It's truly truly that good. But I'm sure I'll purchase another 4Runner once the market chills out and use that for road trips with the dog.

Side Note:
I did switch my social media groups around on Facebook, from following the 5th Gen Owners, to JL Owners. I am sad to report that the Toyota crowd brings up Jeep owners or post memes 20x more often than the Jeep groups do. I'd say you can safely go 5-6 months without a 4Runner being brought up.
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Last edited by hazards280; 06-05-2021 at 12:19 AM.
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