Originally Posted by thennen

Its seemingly a trend with Toyota design to have improper gearing from the factory.

Ever consider that Toyota (and others) has legal constraints related to corporate average fuel economy, driveability, etc., that might at least play a tiny part in their selections of gearing and other things? No automaker makes its vehicles simply to please the whims of its various owners. They have thousands of requirements for each and every vehicle. Sometimes they miss their target. Toyota is the best at hitting those targets, but they run the risk of irritating their most demanding buyers(us) when they do so.

If people place the same demands on all other manufacturers that they place on Toyotas, I think they will find that, overall, the others are worse. Excellent quality is expected from Toyota/Lexus. With many other manufacturers, it's an unexpected bonus.

Originally Posted by TravelingTaco

Of course I've considered that. However, individuals who have regeared actually reported better gas mileage. From the factory the transmission almost never goes into 6th gear (on the tacoma). After regearing, it frequently uses 6th gear like its supposed (over drive gear) to and also shifts a lot less, keeping the rpms from skyrocketing. Either way, gear manufacturers are thankful Toyota geared the Tacoma's so improperly that they are making a killing. I have seen the owner of a gear company say, "Toyota really threw us a bone with this one."

Originally Posted by thennen

I have a 2019 TRDOR 4Runner that averages 21MPG over 64k miles. Creeps up to 22 in the summer (winter gas vs summer? I don't know). So these guys who re-geared and reported better MPG, did they go past 22MPG on their 4Runner?

Originally Posted by TravelingTaco

Regarding your suggestions to either get a pedal commander or regear is part of my issue with the 4runner. I don't want to have to buy a vehicle then immediately begin moding it for it to act properly. I would want to correct the nose dive (suspension), and I certainly don't want to regear a brand new vehicle and void my warranty. The tacoma has its fair share of issues too, and many regear that as well. Its seemingly a trend with Toyota design to have improper gearing from the factory.

Originally Posted by TravelingTaco

Well I was referring to the Tacoma.

Originally Posted by Tuco S.

No one needs a pedal commander. The 4R is not sluggish.
Put your foot into it and it will move with a purpose.

The throttle mapping is actually very precise, and allows you to apply precise increments of power to the wheels at low speeds, such as when crawling over rough terrain. This provides better traction off road and also on wet/icy conditions on pavement. Think of it as using an extra long breaker bar to bust free a seized bolt. It's much easier to apply the precise amount of torque necessary to turn the bolt with a long bar compared to using a short breaker bar that you practically have to jump on with your full weight to get the bolt to finally turn.

As far as needing a regear, it's totally unnecessary unless you plan to install huge tires after a lift. Stick with oem size or 33" tires, and you'll never need a regear.

Originally Posted by BlackWorksInc

I would disagree, it's a noticeable dead spot; the "precision" curve at the beginning of travel is unnecessary in my opinion. Having driven 4th gens with both engines and the 5th gen regularly, there's no need for that level of "precision" besides trying force drivers to either treat the pedal as an on/off switch from a stop light or drive the vehicle like a Prius. The 5th gen is slower off the line compared to a 4th gen V6, simply because of this built in "precision," despite the 5th gen having more oomph on tap technically. There's plenty of precision to control the throttle without artificially hampering the ECM logic to basically ignore the first 1/4~1/3 of pedal travel. The Tundra is a good example of this, it's a very sensitive pedal (we've had some older folks complain about it before), but it's not that hard to toe-in with it and get just the right amount of power you need.

Originally Posted by BlackWorksInc

I would disagree, it's a noticeable dead spot; the "precision" curve at the beginning of travel is unnecessary in my opinion. Having driven 4th gens with both engines and the 5th gen regularly, there's no need for that level of "precision" besides trying force drivers to either treat the pedal as an on/off switch from a stop light or drive the vehicle like a Prius. The 5th gen is slower off the line compared to a 4th gen V6, simply because of this built in "precision," despite the 5th gen having more oomph on tap technically. There's plenty of precision to control the throttle without artificially hampering the ECM logic to basically ignore the first 1/4~1/3 of pedal travel. The Tundra is a good example of this, it's a very sensitive pedal (we've had some older folks complain about it before), but it's not that hard to toe-in with it and get just the right amount of power you need.

Originally Posted by Pedro367

I've owned both. A 2016 JKU and now my 2018 ORP. If you don't need the capability I'd stick with the 4Runner. It's a much more solid vehicle, more comfortable, more reliable (your experience is very uncommon), and has much more room inside. It also still has a great aftermarket.

But, if you are looking to try something new a JL Rubicon is an amazing vehicle and will get you anywhere you need to go right out of the box. There isn't a more fun driving experience than top/doors off and the community is pretty great too. FCA reliability is still questionable, but it's gotten much better in the last few years. Just don't get an angry grille please....

Originally Posted by Tuco S.

No one needs a pedal commander. The 4R is not sluggish.
Put your foot into it and it will move with a purpose.

The throttle mapping is actually very precise, and allows you to apply precise increments of power to the wheels at low speeds, such as when crawling over rough terrain. This provides better traction off road and also on wet/icy conditions on pavement. Think of it as using an extra long breaker bar to bust free a seized bolt. It's much easier to apply the precise amount of torque necessary to turn the bolt with a long bar compared to using a short breaker bar that you practically have to jump on with your full weight to get the bolt to finally turn.

As far as needing a regear, it's totally unnecessary unless you plan to install huge tires after a lift. Stick with oem size or 33" tires, and you'll never need a regear.

Originally Posted by TravelingTaco

Thats funny, it seems that many owners disagree with this. I talked to a local guy last week who has 10k on his T4R, and he said he would not buy it again for precisely this reason. Loves everything else about it but its a "dog". His words.

I'm not expecting the 4Runner to be a race car but any means but compared to the wrangler (any of the 3 engines offered), it feels considerably more sluggish.

Originally Posted by TravelingTaco

Hi 4Runner enthusiasts!

I purchased a new 2021 Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro in lunar rock last October. Turns out, its a lemon and Toyota is buying it back. Now I need to decide between a JL Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon and a 4Runner (ORP or TRDP).

Has anyone owned both/or came from the wrangler platform?

I'll be getting a hard top and installing some sound deadening in the event I go the wrangler route.

4Runner Pros: Larger storage space, sliding down rear window (for the dogs), readily available, great aftermarket, capable off road, best looking SUV of all time, and more plush for a DD.

4Runner Cons: Dated tech and sluggish compared to the Jeep. I can't believe it doesn't even have blindspot! I'm not a fan of the stock suspension and will change it.

Wrangler Pros: More off road capable. Top and doors off. Better tech/features. Larger aftermarket.

Wrangler Cons: Cost. Its louder on the highway. Potential reliability issues (but I can't say I'm thrilled with Toyota at the moment).

Background info: Will be used as a DD on a 9 mile each way commute. Also used on the weekends for overlanding/camping. Not serious wheeling. Plan to do some minor mods like rock sliders, lights, bumper/winch, full spare, and possibly suspension on the T4R.

Originally Posted by TravelingTaco

Thats funny, it seems that many owners disagree with this. I talked to a local guy last week who has 10k on his T4R, and he said he would not buy it again for precisely this reason. Loves everything else about it but its a "dog". His words.

I'm not expecting the 4Runner to be a race car but any means but compared to the wrangler (any of the 3 engines offered), it feels considerably more sluggish.

Originally Posted by Tuco S.

I guess some folks don't like having to depress the gas pedal an extra few mm's, I don't know. The pedal commander doesn't add any hp or torque, it just makes the pedal more sensitive.

Compared to my wife's Forester, which has full-time symmetrical awd, my 4R is considerably easier to get up on rhino ramps in rear wheel drive. If you're not super careful with the Subaru, using 1 foot on the brake pedal, 1 foot on the gas pedal, and a hand on the hand brake, those rhino ramps can easily become a launch pad (ask me how I know). I think it may be because her Forester has a cvt, which has a tiny "gear ratio" (equivalent) to help with low end power. All you have to do is barely touch that gas pedal and the car will lurch forward. I hate it.