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Old 06-15-2021, 12:50 PM #16
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The Coopers AT3s (4S/LT/XLT) are a superior tire to the KO2s. They offer similar off-road/snow performance and durability, while having better highway manners and being 10x better in the rain.

The only downside to the Coopers, in my opinion, is the tread design looks a bit boring. But you can't argue with their performance.
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Old 06-15-2021, 02:09 PM #17
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KO2 Tires vs Cooper AT3 and Falcon Wild Peak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro367 View Post
45-50psi in an e-load on a 4R? That had to ride tremendous.....

45-50 PSI is the sweet spot on my 265/70R17 but thatís on a vehicle with a curb weight 1000 pounds heavier.

Not sure BFGís logic but:

1.) This could be a minimum PSI for a tire with a max load of 80 PSI. (Maybe would not be recommended any lower even for lighter vehicles)

2.) Possible testing for this tire may have produced uneven wear at lower PSI, regardless of weight.

3.) If you have some accessories or payload that add weight to your rig, this might BE the correct pressure after all!

When my factory Geolandars run out on my Nightshade, I will replace them with BFG 275/55R20ís on the factory rims. By pure chance, these are D rated (max inflation 65 PSI) I will still run them at 45 though.

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Old 06-15-2021, 02:13 PM #18
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OP what SIZE are you buying tires in?


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Old 06-15-2021, 02:58 PM #19
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Falcon Wild Peak

I am running Falcon Wild Peak on my 13 Trail (265/70 R17 A/T3W). For the southern California deserts, eastern sierra, and north rim of grand canyon, I've had great success with them. Dry, sand and gravel & rocks they are great.
This is my daily driver so was concerned about tire weight. I've been taking 3-5 day overland trips 4-5 per year. I've never been stuck or had a flat. They perform great on the road and I do not notice excessive road noise. Previously, I had an 84 Toyota truck, straight axle 4x4 that I used for desert and offroad trips (350k miles!). I ran the K02's with thicker side walls. Its not a good comparison with the Trail, but I did not want a real stiff, heavy tire for my daily driver. Plus, the truck was just used for off roading so did not have to drive much on road.
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Old 06-15-2021, 03:07 PM #20
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I'm partial to Coopers. Just jumped on a set for my 2017. Had them on my 3rd and 4th gen as well.

Great tire, very good warranty. Majority of my driving is on-road, but I'm a skier and need good tires for the winter.
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Old 06-15-2021, 03:23 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2021nightshade4x4 View Post
OP what SIZE are you buying tires in?


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This is important. Especially considering the Cooper AT3 comes in three versions. A 265 SL AT3 4S and a 285 E AT3 XLT are completely different applications.

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Old 06-15-2021, 04:29 PM #22
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I've run the original KO and the newer KO2 for years on my Jeeps and always been happy with them both on and off-road.

I've run everything from a 31" - 35" with these tires and had a great experience.

More recently, I've switched to the KM3 in a 35" tire and really like it, but I don't have many miles on that and would go with the KO2 if it were on a daily driver. The Jeep is dedicated to the dirt and the drive to and from the trail, so I would go with the KM3 again in the future. I've run BFG Krawlers on the Jeep and the KM3 does almost as well on dirt, but much better on the highway to the dirt.

I recently put Falcon AT Trails on my Subaru Crosstrek and I like those on highway, but they are a new tire and have not seen any dirt. The Falcons you are looking at are a bit more aggressive.

I'm looking to buy a 1999 gen 3 4R with a V6 and manual trans. It will probably see 50% on-road and 50% off-road. I plan to use the KO2 on that.

Hopefully, I'll find a 4Runner to buy soon and then be able to post an opinion with that perspective.
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Old 06-15-2021, 11:10 PM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtacles View Post
We have Cooper discoverer AT3 4S' on our ORP. They are TPMSF rated and have performed extremely well thus far. They're also quiet and have a great warranty. They do not look nearly as aggressive as a lot of other all season/off road tires however. We had Terra grappler G2's on our last 4Runner and I like these a lot better.
At 25K Got rid of the KO2's as became extremely dangerous in the rain. They were excellent Snow and dirt traction tires, but in any rain were dangerous.

Went to Cooper Discoverer AT3 4S and very happy. Excellent all around traction. This winter, we had 31" of snow in one dump - Snow traction was excellent.
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Old 06-16-2021, 03:46 PM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro367 View Post
45-50psi in an e-load on a 4R? That had to ride tremendous.....
Not sure if you are questioning the sanity of applying higher pressure on a apparently more rugged "truck" tire. I used to think the opposite but here is the explanation:

https://www.toyotires.com/media/3729...s_20200723.pdf

You may jump to page 11 for an example.
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Old 06-17-2021, 09:28 AM #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chubbena View Post
Not sure if you are questioning the sanity of applying higher pressure on a apparently more rugged "truck" tire. I used to think the opposite but here is the explanation:

https://www.toyotires.com/media/3729...s_20200723.pdf

You may jump to page 11 for an example.
I'm not questioning whether it's the correct pressure or not for maximized load capacity and I understand why the manufacturer has to say that. I'm also not worried about load carrying capacity on a mid sized SUV with an E-Load tire designed for larger trucks. The tire will be fine.

I'm only questioning ride quality on a mid-sized SUV on an E-Load tire with 45-50 psi of air in it.
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Old 06-17-2021, 11:50 AM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro367 View Post
I'm not questioning whether it's the correct pressure or not for maximized load capacity and I understand why the manufacturer has to say that. I'm also not worried about load carrying capacity on a mid sized SUV with an E-Load tire designed for larger trucks. The tire will be fine.

I'm only questioning ride quality on a mid-sized SUV on an E-Load tire with 45-50 psi of air in it.
When I had 32psi on the KO2 E rated, the steering was heavy and gave me the impression that traction on snow was good. Was a bit reluctant to air it up to 50psi as steering becomes very light but then it still performs well in all conditions I drive in. The ride is fine coming from driving a TJ but to be honest the Duelers are better in normal daily use.
If I were to do it again I would get a C rated all terrain which is much lighter and hopefully a faster response on the road while having the look and meeting my needs offroad (mild).
With two sets of tires now it will be a while for me to get the next set.

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Old 06-17-2021, 02:21 PM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chubbena View Post
When I had 32psi on the KO2 E rated, the steering was heavy and gave me the impression that traction on snow was good. Was a bit reluctant to air it up to 50psi as steering becomes very light but then it still performs well in all conditions I drive in. The ride is fine coming from driving a TJ but to be honest the Duelers are better in normal daily use.
If I were to do it again I would get a C rated all terrain which is much lighter and hopefully a faster response on the road while having the look and meeting my needs offroad (mild).
With two sets of tires now it will be a while for me to get the next set.
It really does just boil down to buying the correct load. An E is never going to be ideal on a 4runner. But, with certain sizes you are sometimes out of luck if you want a certain tire. The good thing is that the tire market is coming around on that thanks to the enthusiast market demand and also OEs building more specialty vehicles (Raptor, Rubicons, etc.) forcing companies like BFG to build C load tires in popular sizes like 285/70 and 315/70.
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Old 06-17-2021, 03:32 PM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro367 View Post
It really does just boil down to buying the correct load. An E is never going to be ideal on a 4runner. But, with certain sizes you are sometimes out of luck if you want a certain tire. The good thing is that the tire market is coming around on that thanks to the enthusiast market demand and also OEs building more specialty vehicles (Raptor, Rubicons, etc.) forcing companies like BFG to build C load tires in popular sizes like 285/70 and 315/70.
The E usually has more protection (plies) on the side wall which might be important for serious offroaders but not me.
It seems there's no C rated 275/70R17 ATs on the market at the moment but I believe there are quite a few in 265s such as TOYO AT3 which I might consider going forward. 285 and up is too much for me but the OP might be interested.
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Old 06-17-2021, 03:58 PM #29
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Quote:
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The E usually has more protection (plies) on the side wall which might be important for serious offroaders but not me.
It seems there's no C rated 275/70R17 ATs on the market at the moment but I believe there are quite a few in 265s such as TOYO AT3 which I might consider going forward. 285 and up is too much for me but the OP might be interested.
Falken offers the AT3W in 275/70 C, but it weighs more than the KO2 E in the same size.

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Old 06-17-2021, 05:33 PM #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chubbena View Post
When I had 32psi on the KO2 E rated, the steering was heavy and gave me the impression that traction on snow was good. Was a bit reluctant to air it up to 50psi as steering becomes very light but then it still performs well in all conditions I drive in. The ride is fine coming from driving a TJ but to be honest the Duelers are better in normal daily use.
If I were to do it again I would get a C rated all terrain which is much lighter and hopefully a faster response on the road while having the look and meeting my needs offroad (mild).
With two sets of tires now it will be a while for me to get the next set.
That would also depend on your suspension. My LTE play surprisingly well on road with a stiffer, offroad suspension. But they would stress out a stock suspension.

---

LTE tires do not have more plies anywhere. They just have thicker plies. Only select few AT LTE tires (and most MTs) have a 3 ply sidewall like mine or the KO2.

As for the original question, good P metric tires like the AT3W or the Toyo AT III are enough for offroading in most terrains, speaking from experience. As for Cooper, their AT is a light duty tire and I know forum members who have had many punctures offroad both commercially and recreationally with those on trucks and Subarus alike. They do have a great rep for on road driving though.

Finally, the terrain that requires stronger tires is not rocks per se, but sharp, especially volcanic rock. Say, southern Utah is pretty mild so long as you do difficult but not hardcore trails (where punctures would be a byproduct of other things). By contrast SW Arizona wipes out P metric tires even on very easy to drive terrain. Mountain trails with lots of fallen branches and sharp sticks can also cause issues but I have not had any in Montana.
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