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Old 06-14-2021, 10:04 AM #1
Stephencovar Stephencovar is offline
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Questions regarding upgrading’19-‘21 TRD Pro Suspension

Hello friends! I hope everyone is doing well. I have a question for folks that upgraded their suspension on their ‘19-‘21 TRD Pros (Fox suspension). I have a ‘21 TRD Pro. Overall, I’m pretty happy with the stock Fox suspension except for its ride height. Now, I know of the Westcott Design lift kit but I don’t want to just do spacer or preload the collar. I also know that Eibach is working on a lift spring to add some height. I had the Eibach Pro Truck Lift Back when I had my TRD ORP and was overall happy but I couldn’t help but want more out of my suspension.

So now I’m thinking if I am going to mess with the suspension at all, might as well get it done right the first time and just get it all done at once. I’ve narrowed things down to The Icon Stage 7. I want to improve overall approach angles and handle speed when I’m out and about so from the research I’ve been doing, these seem like the best option. I also love that I can control the ride quality and that it’s a complete set from one company rather than mixing and matching.

For those that have gone with Icon, King, etc…., how do you like the overall ride quality compared to the stock suspension? Do you still get the nice plushy ride on the street? How’s overall ride comfort when on trails and going at higher speeds? Were you able to clear 285’s without much, if any, modifications?

Thanks for your help and guidance everyone. Oh and yes, I did use the search option. I haven quite found the answers I was looking for.
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Old 06-15-2021, 11:32 PM #2
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I have a 19 TRD Pro. I have been very happy with the stock Fox. Wanted to go up to 285s and did the Westcot front and rear. Used it hard in Moab and Canyonlands. Highly recommended setup! However I wanted a little more and after waaaaaaay too much research went with Fox 2.5 DSC full kit from accutune. Icon was a solid choice. As we’re Kings. Fox jumped to the front. I don’t think my kit is as extensive as Icons stage 7. But I can get 3” of lift with UCAs and that’s all I need/want. My $0.02. Hope it helps
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Old 06-16-2021, 04:32 PM #3
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Originally Posted by Rottwagon View Post
I have a 19 TRD Pro. I have been very happy with the stock Fox. Wanted to go up to 285s and did the Westcot front and rear. Used it hard in Moab and Canyonlands. Highly recommended setup! However I wanted a little more and after waaaaaaay too much research went with Fox 2.5 DSC full kit from accutune. Icon was a solid choice. As we’re Kings. Fox jumped to the front. I don’t think my kit is as extensive as Icons stage 7. But I can get 3” of lift with UCAs and that’s all I need/want. My $0.02. Hope it helps
Hey! Thank you so much for your response. How’s the ride quality on the Fox 2.5 DSC?
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Old 06-16-2021, 05:05 PM #4
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Hey! Thank you so much for your response. How’s the ride quality on the Fox 2.5 DSC?
By definition, you cannot get the same ride quality from a velocity-sensitive shock as from a position sensitive shock unless you valve it so softly that it becomes just a pricey ornament.

You cannot expect to move away from a more sophisticated design (stock internal bypass Fox) to a less sophisticated one (FOX 2.5 DSC, Icon 2.5 non-bypass) and gain in ride quality without butchering the performance. You can gain in performance though.

You can get it all, if you go for bigger position sensitive shocks such as Bilstein 8112/8100 or a custom other brand setup and you keep your lift within reason.

But first, you should drive your current setup in the desert and in rocks to see what, if anything, you really want/need.
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Old 06-18-2021, 09:00 AM #5
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Originally Posted by MAST4R View Post
By definition, you cannot get the same ride quality from a velocity-sensitive shock as from a position sensitive shock unless you valve it so softly that it becomes just a pricey ornament.

You cannot expect to move away from a more sophisticated design (stock internal bypass Fox) to a less sophisticated one (FOX 2.5 DSC, Icon 2.5 non-bypass) and gain in ride quality without butchering the performance. You can gain in performance though.

You can get it all, if you go for bigger position sensitive shocks such as Bilstein 8112/8100 or a custom other brand setup and you keep your lift within reason.

But first, you should drive your current setup in the desert and in rocks to see what, if anything, you really want/need.
Thank you so much for this response. I learned something new today. Truth be told, I drive my rig on city streets and highways about 90-95% of the time. Ultimately, what I’m looking for is a nice lift. I figured that if I’m messing around with the suspension, I might as well upgrade it now and go all out. Most of the off roading I do is on fire roads and easy trails. Occasionally I’ll get brave and do a slightly more moderate trail. I don’t plan on doing any rock crawling and the only way I can see myself going on a hard trail is if I’m prepared with a lift, bigger tires and armor.

I’ve also been toying with the idea of getting a set of 285s but in reality, I don’t really want to do any body modifications, at least not yet. I figured that the lift would definitely help me clear 285s. I know Westcott is probably a darn good option for me with little to no sacrifice. I can also wait for Eibach to release their upgraded springs for the TRD Pro. I just really want to do it once and do it right the first time. That’s why I’ve looking at the Icon Stage 7s. It’s the most complete and straight forward kit I’ve seen.

I’m totally open to someone knocking some sense into me. Just be respectful and give me options.
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Old 06-18-2021, 09:48 AM #6
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Sounds like the Icon stage 7 would be serious overkill for you and probably compromise the ride quality for how you use the rig the most. I did the Westcott with 285s. No rubbing. I was very satisfied with the ride quality both on and off road. The stock Fox setup is really quite amazing. The Westcott is more or less the same as adding preload - which is not further spring compression - just repositioning.
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Old 06-18-2021, 09:57 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rottwagon View Post
Sounds like the Icon stage 7 would be serious overkill for you and probably compromise the ride quality for how you use the rig the most. I did the Westcott with 285s. No rubbing. I was very satisfied with the ride quality both on and off road. The stock Fox setup is really quite amazing. The Westcott is more or less the same as adding preload - which is not further spring compression - just repositioning.
Was your Westcott lift for the '21/post TSB front coils or the 19/20?
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Old 06-18-2021, 11:19 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rottwagon View Post
Sounds like the Icon stage 7 would be serious overkill for you and probably compromise the ride quality for how you use the rig the most. I did the Westcott with 285s. No rubbing. I was very satisfied with the ride quality both on and off road. The stock Fox setup is really quite amazing. The Westcott is more or less the same as adding preload - which is not further spring compression - just repositioning.
I really appreciate your transparency. I’m starting to really feel like the Icons might/are overkill. I guess I’m also torn on wether or not the Westcott option is best for me or wait for the Eibach springs to be released.
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Old 06-18-2021, 11:29 AM #9
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Actually, there is nothing special about Icon 7 other than the price.

It is just as any other traditional 2.5 suspension plus a bunch of shiny parts.

Bilstein 8112/8100 offers far superior shocks while Fox 2.5DSC offers better adjustments while the Bp 51 and Dobs MRA will all offer a better match for an overland rig. The stock Fox Pro is probably best of them for the street, along with the 8000-series.

Icon makes good stuff but where they do excel is marketing.

EDIT: going back to the question of how to gain a little lift while preserving the stock ride quality of the Fox Pro and the reliability, if it were me, I would go with a small spacer, such as a 1" lift from a 0.5" spacer. The stock Pro is already 1" over most 4Runners. So that's +2" on most, same shocks, same positions of the shafts, same ride quality.


A small 1" spacer lift from 0.5" spacer would not worry me in normal offroad use.

By contrast, the Eibach Pro lift spring will put the Fox shocks out of position. Since the front shaft gets about 2.25" in of compression travel at 1.25" of lift on mine, the stock Pro Fox will be in that ballpark. And therefore if you move the shaft by 1" you will completely change the piston's position within the shock body and therefore alter the ride quality quite a bit because those are position sensitive shocks.
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Old 06-18-2021, 12:47 PM #10
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Was your Westcott lift for the '21/post TSB front coils or the 19/20?
For my 2019 TRDP
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Old 06-18-2021, 01:06 PM #11
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Originally Posted by MAST4R View Post
Actually, there is nothing special about Icon 7 other than the price.

It is just as any other traditional 2.5 suspension plus a bunch of shiny parts.

Bilstein 8112/8100 offers far superior shocks while Fox 2.5DSC offers better adjustments while the Bp 51 and Dobs MRA will all offer a better match for an overland rig. The stock Fox Pro is probably best of them for the street, along with the 8000-series.

Icon makes good stuff but where they do excel is marketing.

EDIT: going back to the question of how to gain a little lift while preserving the stock ride quality of the Fox Pro and the reliability, if it were me, I would go with a small spacer, such as a 1" lift from a 0.5" spacer. The stock Pro is already 1" over most 4Runners. So that's +2" on most, same shocks, same positions of the shafts, same ride quality.


A small 1" spacer lift from 0.5" spacer would not worry me in normal offroad use.

By contrast, the Eibach Pro lift spring will put the Fox shocks out of position. Since the front shaft gets about 2.25" in of compression travel at 1.25" of lift on mine, the stock Pro Fox will be in that ballpark. And therefore if you move the shaft by 1" you will completely change the piston's position within the shock body and therefore alter the ride quality quite a bit because those are position sensitive shocks.
So do you think going the Wescott route would be a good option?
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Old 06-18-2021, 01:27 PM #12
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No idea what that is. Btw, when I say spacer, I mean tophat spacer. Anything else would place the shock piston out of position.

But again, I would not get any lift at all unless I absolutely had to. So it comes to that: is it for looks? Then a tophat spacer would normally do the trick. But why bother?

If the lift is desired for function, what is the issue? Hitting the bump stops in the desert? under what conditions and at what speeds? Hitting rocks when crawling? If the nose dives too much during braking on pavement, it will do all those things when offroading. If the nose is noticeably better when braking than a stock non Pro 4Runner, SR5 or TRD Offroad, then no change is needed.

Lift does not solve hitting stuff offroad esp not desert stuff. Spring rates and suspension valving does. Lift can help a little but is secondary to suspension.
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Old 06-19-2021, 01:51 AM #13
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So do you think going the Wescott route would be a good option?
I may not be as technically versed as others chiming in. However I have nothing but rave reviews about my wescott kit while I had it. On road didn’t suffer best I could tell. And I used the hell out of it in Moab. I also loved the way it gave the T4R what I thought was the proper look. Win win win in my opinion. Having said that- I’m not running it today. My needs changed. I’ve added significant weight to my rig and was compromising my suspension setup. It was wescott themselves that suggested moving on to adjustable Fox 2.5 kit. Let’s also be honest- the kit is relatively affordable compared to other options. I believe it to be a very compelling option until you start to get crazy.
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Old 06-21-2021, 12:53 PM #14
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Originally Posted by MAST4R View Post

By contrast, the Eibach Pro lift spring will put the Fox shocks out of position. Since the front shaft gets about 2.25" in of compression travel at 1.25" of lift on mine, the stock Pro Fox will be in that ballpark. And therefore if you move the shaft by 1" you will completely change the piston's position within the shock body and therefore alter the ride quality quite a bit because those are position sensitive shocks.

From what Eibach and Westcott have released, is that they put the shocks on a dyno to make sure they didnt raise them outside of the stock ride zone... that there was a bit of play in each zone and went out of their way to keep it like that. Iver heard the same sort of thing from a different page where someone actually chatted with a Fox engineer and said you have about 1" to play with in terms of extended height.
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Old 06-21-2021, 07:47 PM #15
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From what Eibach and Westcott have released, is that they put the shocks on a dyno to make sure they didnt raise them outside of the stock ride zone... that there was a bit of play in each zone and went out of their way to keep it like that. Iver heard the same sort of thing from a different page where someone actually chatted with a Fox engineer and said you have about 1" to play with in terms of extended height.
Good points, looks like the Westcoot kit combines tophat and preload spacers.

I assume Eibach is +1" spring? One inch more compression than stock Pro won't hurt. What is the stock Pro Fox down travel?
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