User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-03-2021, 01:30 PM #31
2021nightshade4x4 2021nightshade4x4 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 545
2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough 2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough
2021nightshade4x4 2021nightshade4x4 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 545
2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough 2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salvo View Post
FWIW, I just got out of a 2018 v6 Tacoma and into a 21 ORP T4R and the T4R is far superior in this regard. Gear hunting in the Taco was absolutely intolerable.

You have to think, the Tacoma has a similarly underpowered V6 but SIX gears to fumble through!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2021nightshade4x4 is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 01:44 PM #32
2021nightshade4x4 2021nightshade4x4 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 545
2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough 2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough
2021nightshade4x4 2021nightshade4x4 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 545
2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough 2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Bronson View Post
I agree with everyone that the 4runner is a truck, is 4700+lbs, has a long geared 5AT, and is lacking in torque and/or torque multiplication, BUT it still doesn't explain to me why I can be in CC and apply some steady and minor throttle when going up an minor long incline and the truck will rarely downshift into 4th and will never gear hunt. It sometimes unlocks the torque converter which provides MORE TORQUE MULTIPLICATION! What a novel idea?! Yet when leaving CC to full control, it doesn't want to unlock the TC in 5th, but rather downshift. It makes no freaking sense that they can't at least lessen this issue with a simple shift logic reprogram. This is 2021 after all.

Driving in the hills of northern Arkansas made me appreciate driving in 4th and even sometimes 3rd. A running speed of 2200-2400rpms seems to be the sweet spot for this motor in terms of response, smoothness, and mpg assuming you're having to deal with some minor topography. We saw nearly 20mpg in driving in the winding hills with a good amount of coasting followed by heavy throttle to climb. I never thought 20mpg would be possible, especially in hilly driving. Speeds ranged from 30mph to 65mph and we did 200 miles in the area. Then we head home on the interstate at speeds of ~75mph and saw 17.0 mpg. In the 4runner's defense, it did have a paddleboard on top and facing a cross wind of ~15mph.

Don't get me wrong, I do love the truck and my wife (her truck) absolutely loves it. Interstate driving just isn't what it's good at. Unfortunately for us, we have to do a lot interstate driving to get to fun places.

Agree - Toyota’s not so logical “logic” and something I’ve never heard of… an in-between setting called Flex Lockup? (Read link in my earlier post, toward the end it Sounds like a recipe for premature lockup clutch wear…

TCM (ECM?) programming seems to be set thinking they can predict driver intent given the inputs and readings at any given moment, but they’re basing it on assumptions that the driver input MUST BE incorrect and needs correcting.

Reminds me of going from cable throttle to drive by wire. The 1+ second delay from input to response, slow mushy shifts… engineers with this preconceived notion that it MUST be drivers stabbing the throttle after seeing the light turn green that accounts for their products’ shitty fuel mileage!

HA!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2021nightshade4x4 is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 02:11 PM #33
Charles Bronson Charles Bronson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Earth
Posts: 119
Charles Bronson will become famous soon enough
Charles Bronson Charles Bronson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Earth
Posts: 119
Charles Bronson will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2021nightshade4x4 View Post
Agree - Toyota’s not so logical “logic” and something I’ve never heard of… an in-between setting called Flex Lockup? (Read link in my earlier post, toward the end it Sounds like a recipe for premature lockup clutch wear…
Yeah, I've never heard of "Flex Lockup" until today. Most electronically controlled planetary automatics have torque converters that have "slip lock" which means the trans can lock, fully unlock, or partially lock the torque converter. Depending on the stall speed of the torque converter, it can give essentially provide few extra gears for 4th and 5th as unlocking the torque converter allows the trans to stay in the same gear but at a slightly higher rpm (~500rpms) plus some additional and much-needed torque multiplication. When the torque converter unlocks in the 4runner 5AT, rpms jump about 500rpms and then the truck usually has no issue cresting the hill. Every auto I've owned in the past 15 years manages to do this in cruise control. Why in 2021 Toyota still can't figure out how to do this is beyond boggling.

The biggest thing holding this truck back from better mpgs, acceleration, and overall driveability is a 8 speed auto like the one used in RWD Lexus products since freaking 2007.
Charles Bronson is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 02:44 PM #34
2021nightshade4x4 2021nightshade4x4 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 545
2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough 2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough
2021nightshade4x4 2021nightshade4x4 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 545
2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough 2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Bronson View Post
Yeah, I've never heard of "Flex Lockup" until today. Most electronically controlled planetary automatics have torque converters that have "slip lock" which means the trans can lock, fully unlock, or partially lock the torque converter. Depending on the stall speed of the torque converter, it can give essentially provide few extra gears for 4th and 5th as unlocking the torque converter allows the trans to stay in the same gear but at a slightly higher rpm (~500rpms) plus some additional and much-needed torque multiplication. When the torque converter unlocks in the 4runner 5AT, rpms jump about 500rpms and then the truck usually has no issue cresting the hill. Every auto I've owned in the past 15 years manages to do this in cruise control. Why in 2021 Toyota still can't figure out how to do this is beyond boggling.

The biggest thing holding this truck back from better mpgs, acceleration, and overall driveability is a 8 speed auto like the one used in RWD Lexus products since freaking 2007.

8 spd could be a game changer, but it’s got to commit to those gear changes, too. It’s like there’s no learning going on, or it’s constantly in relearn. I am curious what OTHER dynamics (that we haven’t yet discussed) are at play here, too.

Did we not have V8’s 20 years ago with less power than the V6, in heavier trucks, connected to a 4AT that had less trouble climbing grades than the 4Runner lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2021nightshade4x4 is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 03:11 PM #35
5thToy 5thToy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Northern Nevada
Posts: 344
5thToy is a jewel in the rough 5thToy is a jewel in the rough 5thToy is a jewel in the rough
5thToy 5thToy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Northern Nevada
Posts: 344
5thToy is a jewel in the rough 5thToy is a jewel in the rough 5thToy is a jewel in the rough
CC algorithms in the 4Runner may suck, but I can't think of a single vehicle in 40 years of driving that I would want to use CC in the hills.
5thToy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 04:14 PM #36
Gecko's Avatar
Gecko Gecko is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Friend Zone
Posts: 690
Gecko is a jewel in the rough Gecko is a jewel in the rough Gecko is a jewel in the rough
Gecko Gecko is offline
Member
Gecko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Friend Zone
Posts: 690
Gecko is a jewel in the rough Gecko is a jewel in the rough Gecko is a jewel in the rough
^This. Asking a computer to consider transmission gear ratios + engine outputs + elevation changes + keeping a consistent speed = never going to feel "natural" because it's programmed to keep a consistent speed first and will upshift/downshift as needed to do that, and it often feels quite haphazard. Even on vehicles with 6-, 8- and 10-speed transmissions, this has been my experience.

With that said, the tall gearing and slow downshifts of the 5AT exacerbate the issue, but yeah.
__________________

2021 Lexus GX 460 Luxury , Atomic Silver/Black @LandCruiserDNA
Previous: 1999, 2016 and 2019 4Runners
Gecko is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 05:30 PM #37
2021nightshade4x4 2021nightshade4x4 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 545
2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough 2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough
2021nightshade4x4 2021nightshade4x4 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 545
2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough 2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough
Gear hunting while in cruise control is "Character" per Toyota

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko View Post
^This. Asking a computer to consider transmission gear ratios + engine outputs + elevation changes + keeping a consistent speed = never going to feel "natural" because it's programmed to keep a consistent speed first and will upshift/downshift as needed to do that, and it often feels quite haphazard. Even on vehicles with 6-, 8- and 10-speed transmissions, this has been my experience.

With that said, the tall gearing and slow downshifts of the 5AT exacerbate the issue, but yeah.

So maybe the vehicle reacting to a 1 MPH decrease in speed seems sudden and unnecessary to a driver who only stabs the gas after he:

1.) notices decel, usually > 1 MPH
2.) reacts, pressing pedal
3.) vehicle reacts, downshifting

It’s an awkward operator experience for the same reasons people only get carsick as passengers, never as the driver. Anything happening feels “wrong” when it’s not operator-commanded. That’s my theory (or yours, that I’ll adopt)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2021nightshade4x4 is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 06:22 PM #38
Charles Bronson Charles Bronson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Earth
Posts: 119
Charles Bronson will become famous soon enough
Charles Bronson Charles Bronson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Earth
Posts: 119
Charles Bronson will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thToy View Post
CC algorithms in the 4Runner may suck, but I can't think of a single vehicle in 40 years of driving that I would want to use CC in the hills.
I guess the term "hill" is dependent on your definition. Steep and winding hills on two lane roads/highways? No way. Hills on the 4+ lane interstates of the Midwest? Hell yes you'll want and need CC.
Charles Bronson is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 06:27 PM #39
5thToy 5thToy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Northern Nevada
Posts: 344
5thToy is a jewel in the rough 5thToy is a jewel in the rough 5thToy is a jewel in the rough
5thToy 5thToy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Northern Nevada
Posts: 344
5thToy is a jewel in the rough 5thToy is a jewel in the rough 5thToy is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Bronson View Post
I guess the term "hill" is dependent on your definition. Steep and winding hills on two lane roads/highways? No way. Hills on the 4+ lane interstates of the Midwest? Hell yes you'll want and need CC.
That's true. I have lived all over CA and Nevada. CC in every vehicle is ineffective on all the foothills, coastal ranges and mountains whether it be freeway or highway. Basically, it's effective on valley roads only. Certainly this also depends on how loaded you are and wether or not you are running heavier, oversized tires. I have rarely used it over the years. I guess that's a personal choice. I might if there had been adaptive systems I suppose, too much traffic.

Last edited by 5thToy; 08-03-2021 at 08:02 PM.
5thToy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 07:07 PM #40
bowhun2r's Avatar
bowhun2r bowhun2r is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Steeler Nation
Posts: 134
bowhun2r will become famous soon enough bowhun2r will become famous soon enough
bowhun2r bowhun2r is offline
Member
bowhun2r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Steeler Nation
Posts: 134
bowhun2r will become famous soon enough bowhun2r will become famous soon enough
Maggie S/C as a few others have noted cures this on HW cruising.

It's not a rocket ship... but I can tell you going up large inclines at HWY speeds it makes a huge difference.

Unfortunately, looks like Magnuson has not cracked the nanny's for Toyota Safety Sense. Bummer... If/when they do this would cure this.
__________________
18 LE: Magnuson S/C| FN PRO Wheels| Diode Dynamics HID LB| Tail as turn LED| XD DRL/LB LED | Precision LED interior | Cooper AT34S 265/70/17 | Trail Rocker and Running Boards| 12.volt Solutions RS | Canvasback liners | Dobinsons 300/700 599/705 10mm spacer | ILX-207 Alpine PDR-F50 | Rago Molle panels | Pro grill with LED | Pro bumper swap | RCI skids
19 GX-460 | Canvasback Liners | Xpel PPF |
bowhun2r is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-04-2021, 03:42 PM #41
mscot mscot is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 884
mscot is a jewel in the rough mscot is a jewel in the rough mscot is a jewel in the rough
mscot mscot is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 884
mscot is a jewel in the rough mscot is a jewel in the rough mscot is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp00ner View Post
Going up from Denver to Breckenridge I had whole climbs being done in like 3rd gear at 4500 RPMs for pretty extended periods of time just to maintain 70mph, I literally laughed out loud more than a few times.
This is me all winter long, except I'm not laughing.
And then all the fanboys try to correct me when I say the powertrain is the worst part of the 5th gen b/c "reliable".
__________________
TRD Off Road Prem w/ KDSS: XD Series Turbine wheels, Falken Wildpeak 285/70s, Eibach Pro-Truck Suspension, RCI 5-degree sliders, Sprint Boost, C4 Fab Lo Pro bumper w/ winch and lights, LFD Offroad 7/8 Rack, custom rear drawer system, some black stuff here and there
Build thread
mscot is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-04-2021, 03:56 PM #42
2021nightshade4x4 2021nightshade4x4 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 545
2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough 2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough
2021nightshade4x4 2021nightshade4x4 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 545
2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough 2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by mscot View Post
This is me all winter long, except I'm not laughing.
And then all the fanboys try to correct me when I say the powertrain is the worst part of the 5th gen b/c "reliable".

This one won’t. I’m a fan of reliability but not to the detriment of functionality. Because then we’d be right back at square 1 with a machine that can’t do the job.

As customers with checks in hand, we have certain expectations of how vehicles will drive in 2021. We don’t have flying cars, but I do expect that my cars will FLY!

Gear hunting while in cruise control is "Character" per Toyota


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2021nightshade4x4 is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-04-2021, 04:07 PM #43
2021nightshade4x4 2021nightshade4x4 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 545
2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough 2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough
2021nightshade4x4 2021nightshade4x4 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 545
2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough 2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough
Does anyone know if the 2007-2009 Tundras with the 4.7L V8 and 5-speed A750F also had the same gear hunting problem?

2010 got the 4.6 V8 coupled to a 6 speed auto.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2021nightshade4x4 is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-04-2021, 10:07 PM #44
03_4x4Runner's Avatar
03_4x4Runner 03_4x4Runner is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Lake Havasu, AZ
Posts: 2,744
03_4x4Runner has a spectacular aura about 03_4x4Runner has a spectacular aura about
03_4x4Runner 03_4x4Runner is offline
Senior Member
03_4x4Runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Lake Havasu, AZ
Posts: 2,744
03_4x4Runner has a spectacular aura about 03_4x4Runner has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2021nightshade4x4 View Post
Does anyone know if the 2007-2009 Tundras with the 4.7L V8 and 5-speed A750F also had the same gear hunting problem?

2010 got the 4.6 V8 coupled to a 6 speed auto.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My old 2003 4runner with the 4.7 engine and 5 speed auto basically hunted the same as my 2014 but the V8 was so smooth and good sounding running that rpm is seemed more natural. If we had more gears you could have a ratio between 4 and 5 and 3 and 4.
__________________
2014 4Runner Limited Barcelona Red, RCI gas tank skid plate, 275/70/17 BFG KO2 all terrains on SR5 wheels for off road use stock 20s for highway

Last edited by 03_4x4Runner; 08-04-2021 at 11:42 PM.
03_4x4Runner is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-05-2021, 02:55 AM #45
2021nightshade4x4 2021nightshade4x4 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 545
2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough 2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough
2021nightshade4x4 2021nightshade4x4 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 545
2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough 2021nightshade4x4 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03_4x4Runner View Post
My old 2003 4runner with the 4.7 engine and 5 speed auto basically hunted the same as my 2014 but the V8 was so smooth and good sounding running that rpm is seemed more natural. If we had more gears you could have a ratio between 4 and 5 and 3 and 4.

IIRC the power and torque curves on the V6 are anything but flat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2021nightshade4x4 is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Tags
4runner , 4th , gear , hunting , issue

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is my 4 Runner "Gear Hunting" BTSullivan91 Problems & Warranty Issues 7 05-29-2020 05:33 PM
Is "Frozen" Lower Control Arms a "Thing"? Kistle 5th gen T4Rs 11 08-15-2017 09:39 AM
concerns about "new radiator" when hunting for new 4runner Jc12 3rd gen T4Rs 7 03-24-2014 12:52 PM
WTB: 4th Gen "4Runner," "Limited," and "Toyota" badges James_T Want to Buy/Trade 3 06-25-2011 11:42 AM
Toyota Hilux, "Top Gear" Climb Icelandic Volcano Just Before Eruption IntoTheVoid General Discussions 4 04-23-2010 09:10 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:26 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
***This site is an unofficial Toyota site, and is not officially endorsed, supported, authorized by or affiliated with Toyota. All company, product, or service names references in this web site are used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Toyota name, marks, designs and logos, as well as Toyota model names, are registered trademarks of Toyota Motor Corporation***Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
Copyright © 2020