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Old 10-18-2021, 05:11 AM #1
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Another Alignment Thread...

I know, another one of these threads. Sorry in advance just need some advice here.

Got done putting on the Eibach Stage 1 kit with jba uca. Rear is the standard 1" lift spring with a .5" cornfed spacer. Drove around without getting an alignment for a whole week to let things settle. The whole time it drove great, didn't wander and was confident on the highway.

Then I got an alignment from a place that basically caters towards lifted Toyota's. After the alignment the truck just feels nervous all the time and wanders a ridiculous amount. It requires so much steering correction. I'd say it's borderline worse than our lifted Jeep JLU.

Why does it drive so much worse after the alignment? Is there anything that stands out on this alignment sheet that I'm just not seeing?
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Old 10-18-2021, 09:46 AM #2
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I'd pay good money for those specs if accurate...

Sorry, maybe the machine was wacked out? Maybe a bolt wasn't tightened and it came unglued right away?

All they really needed to adjust was your tie rod. Camber/caster bolt was great before, not sure why they felt like messing with it.

Last edited by Forgetful; 10-18-2021 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 10-18-2021, 11:13 AM #3
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High tire pressure can cause that. Make sure the tires weren't overinflated.
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Old 10-18-2021, 02:24 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgetful View Post
I'd pay good money for those specs if accurate...

Sorry, maybe the machine was wacked out? Maybe a bolt wasn't tightened and it came unglued right away?

All they really needed to adjust was your tie rod. Camber/caster bolt was great before, not sure why they felt like messing with it.
Yeah, when they handed me the sheet I was happy since the numbers looked good. One thing I did notice immediately driving home was that the steering wheel wasn't straight, it's just slightly to the left. Didn't really mind that though.

Maybe you're right that they didn't tighten things down properly and it adjusted itself out of alignment?

Maybe I should try going to another alignment shop. I would go to the same one and have them check it again but that shop is 1.5 hours away.
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Old 10-18-2021, 02:27 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whippersnapper02 View Post
High tire pressure can cause that. Make sure the tires weren't overinflated.
I was actually playing around with pressures yesterday and they are all at the proper amount. Even tried going lower and it didn't help.

Last edited by GoodBoyFoster; 10-18-2021 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 10-19-2021, 07:34 AM #6
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GBF,

I am not a 4Runner owner and have never seen the alignment specs, but am coming from a Miata community/forum where alignment specs and modified suspensions were a hot topic. I had a modified suspension myself.

The quality of the alignments can vary greatly from shop to shop and between technicians and individual alignment machines. No shop has ever admitted to me how long it's been since they had their machine calibrated.

It can be a trial and error ($$$) process to try different shops to see who is doing well. Talk to them along the way to see what their knowledge or bs level is. When I found a good technician I would go back again, tip them some lunch money, and even follow them to a new shop when they changed jobs. Even then, I had one outstanding and skilled fellow who went to a new shop and the alignment there was awful. Took my car to the dealership for an _average_ alignment the very next day.

You might have to undertake a self study of the characteristics of the camber/caster/toe features in alignments and how they work together to cause various handling features. It helps to know more than the alignment shop. (Precision alignment where you give them _your_ personalized specifications to dial in.)

As a general rule I like to emphasize having the numbers match left to right. That can help with some of the more subtle anoyances.

Also, not knowing what I am talking about here but, the alignment page from the shop shows an alignment for certain models of 4Runners. Perhaps there is another different set of specs provided by the suspension company you got the modified suspension from? It could be different?

Good Luck!
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Old 10-19-2021, 02:57 PM #7
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Based on what you wrote and the before/after results that you posted I would try adding some toe-in and test it again to see if the highway speed nervousness improves.
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Old 10-19-2021, 03:46 PM #8
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GBF,

Found another reference, not sure where I copied this from but...

"Excessive toe means that since each tire is pointed in a direction other than straight ahead, when the vehicle encounters a puddle that causes only one tire to lose some of its grip, the other tire's toe setting will push (excessive toe-in) or pull (excessive toe-out) the vehicle to the side. This may make the vehicle feel unsettled and very nervous."

The fact that you have tow in on one side in the rear and tow out on the other is concerning. Seems like a lot of thrust angle to me.

In my prior Miata, as a small and light vehicle, I used to shoot for slightly more toe in the rear than in the front to cause the car to 'weathervane' a little a highway speeds and provide for very stable steering at highway speeds.

It could be that researching the term Tramlining and the contributing factors could help?

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Old 10-19-2021, 03:49 PM #9
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Looks like you went from slightly Toe-In to slightly Toe-Out. That could be adding to your nervousness. Going to zero or slightly toe-in should help with that feeling. Otherwise the numbers look pretty good.
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Old 10-19-2021, 04:34 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milhaus View Post
Looks like you went from slightly Toe-In to slightly Toe-Out. That could be adding to your nervousness. Going to zero or slightly toe-in should help with that feeling. Otherwise the numbers look pretty good.
Milhaus, correct me if this is not correct, but am thinking that Toe In is shown as a positive number and Toe Out is expressed as a negative. So the overall front adjustment went from toe out to tow in. ???
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Old 10-19-2021, 06:01 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakrak2 View Post
Milhaus, correct me if this is not correct, but am thinking that Toe In is shown as a positive number and Toe Out is expressed as a negative. So the overall front adjustment went from toe out to tow in. ???
You are 100% correct...he has gone from Toe OUT to pretty neutral TOE, which makes the nervous feeling all the more strange. Thanks for pointing that out!
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Old 10-19-2021, 08:23 PM #12
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My numbers are damn near identical, except I request my camber to be slightly negative at -.2. My truck drives incredibly on all roads and my steering feels great too. Did you do a zero point calibration after your alignment? My alignment tech said that is something that should be done after each. Also, did they torque everything to spec, alignment cam bolts to 130lbft and tie rods to 67lb ft?
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Old 10-19-2021, 09:48 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milhaus View Post
You are 100% correct...he has gone from Toe OUT to pretty neutral TOE, which makes the nervous feeling all the more strange. Thanks for pointing that out!
Good call guys, I read that the other was as well.

So then put a slight toe out and see if that helps.

Thought this does seem to go against conventional thinking, sometimes these things do require some tinkering to get just right.

Last edited by j-dub; 10-21-2021 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 10-23-2021, 04:41 AM #14
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Thanks for the help everyone. I appreciate it.

So here is my plan now:
I'm going to take the truck to a place where they offer free alignment checks. I just want to see if the original shop actually torqued everything down properly and that the alignment didn't move. If the issue is the alignment moved, great! Get a new alignment and problems gone.

One thing I notice is that my truck keeps varying in lean every day. I have kdss so the driver's side is higher by 1/2" sometimes, but then the next day it's only 1/4". Some days it's dead even. So, I'm going to install a kdss spacer to get the sway bar at a better angle to try and fix the leaning. Doubt the varying lean has any significant impact on the alignment but hey, another variable will be gone.

If I find that the alignment never moved from what the shop set it at, I guess I'll try new specs and hope it'll drive better.

Last edited by GoodBoyFoster; 10-23-2021 at 05:07 AM.
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Old 10-23-2021, 04:46 AM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milhaus View Post
You are 100% correct...he has gone from Toe OUT to pretty neutral TOE, which makes the nervous feeling all the more strange. Thanks for pointing that out!
Exactly!! Isn't that weird? It drove way better with toe-out somehow.
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