Is it safe to assume that no one has used or seen these lights in action?

Vision X 4Runner Grille LED Lighting Kit (2014-2021) — 4Runner Lifestyle

With as much as I see them on the different websites, it kinda surprises me…

friends dont let friends install raptard lights.

Hahahaha!!!!

Yeah those are turn signals at best. Not something that will push light down the road.


Yeah I've seen those, but only online. I'm willing to bet that they're somewhere in between Diode and BD in terms of light output. However, VisionX is just an American importer /markupper of generic Chinese junk, so I'd be willing to bet the quality and durability is not great.

You know, I’m surprised people back the Diode light bars when it appears (on paper) that their output is SIGNIFICANTLY less than the offerings from Baja, Rigid, etc… I saw a pic of an 18” bar in the upper grill and thought is looked pretty awesome, but the Baja bar puts out 4 times the lumens!

One thing you want to remember with advertised Lumen output numbers is that most of them are total BS. The reason is that almost everyone quotes what are in effect "theoretical maximum" numbers. That means they take the maximum output from a perfect chip in perfect conditions and multiply it by the number of chips (diodes) in a product. In the real world that most of us live in, "perfect" rarely happens.

The other thing one needs to look at is how those Lumens are put to work. A given product may legitimately have a pretty decent output as measured in Lumens, but the optics suck and the light is simply blown all over the place as opposed to where you need / want it.

As for Rigid products, remember, they're significantly more expensive that everyone else due to generally superior engineering, design and manufacturing practices. You do get what you pay for.

Ah yes, the old lumens count. As Too Stroked points out, raw lumens are just a theoretical, best-case measurement of the total light leaving a source. How that light is controlled and optimized is the result of the optics in use. Consider that a highly engineered light bar, with great optics and thermal management, has a raw rating of 10,000 lumens. If you take everything else away, remove the optics and heatsinking, so that all you're left with is naked chips on a board- you still have 10,000 lumens.

Diode has chosen total infernal reflection optics (cast polycarbonate) which loses a bit of intensity due to filtering light through a thick, solid medium. However, it has a ton of efficiency because nearly all of the light coming out of each chip is carefully reflected off of a controlled, angled surface. So even if they don't have the highest lumen count, nearly all of those lumens are directed into a specific pattern (instead of being lost to glare). This is why they make excellent candidates for street legal patterns like SAE J583 fog lights and J581 auxiliary high beams. These standards have specific pattern and intensity requirements to comply to.

Baja Designs controls their lights using very deep reflectors and forward facing diodes. This has less internal losses but more "spilled light" which can be desirable for off-road use cases. This is why they do not make great candidates for street legal lighting, and they do not advertise as such (except for their SAE squadron fog, which is nerfed to the point of being dimmer than factory halogens).

KC HiLites has huge reflectors and rear-facing diodes in their gravity series. This is how they make excellently controlled lighting with huge intensities, despite using only 20 watts of power for each 6 inch lamp. They have SAE J581 driving lights too.

Most Chineseum lights you can buy will have lots of chips and a high lumen count as well. But often they have dirt-cheap shallow reflectors or lenses, which don't control the light well at all. They work okay as near range floodlights, but compare them side by side with a reputable company's lights and you'll see the difference right away.

Here's a video by Diode explaining lumens, lux, and candela. Lumens, Lux, and Candela EXPLAINED | Diode Dynamics - YouTube

Famously, Baja Designs will tell you that lumens aren't everything too. I've been pestering them to publish more information, and they did respond (about a year ago) that they're working on more thorough spec sheets with candela, etc. So far nothing yet. They tend to do things their way, which is by making podium in many off-road races.

I really wish the diode dynamics light bars use the same technology as their SS3 pods. But you can’t take an amber light, and put a clear lens on it, and still get the 4000 K that you would from one of their in light pods… To me, that almost seems like it would be an ideal set up in the upper grill…. The 6000-6500k just seems a bit too blue for my aging eyes…

sheesh i never knew that, theyve been around forever it seems. glad i didnt spring for the light cannons.

The Stage light bars do use TIR technology. I believe the issue you're mentioning is more of an emitter (LED) color temperature issue. The current clear LED bars use different color temperature emitters than the SS3 pods. You could always buy the new SS5s in selective yellow and do a clear lens swap to get 4000k, then mount them in the lower grill. I know several folks that are doing that as soon as their SS5s arrive. Hint: I might be one of them.

Yes, I would love to have a 4000K bar as well. However, the difference between the LumiLED chips (5700K) and the Cree XP chips (6500K) is pretty noticable.

Here's a shot of the bar on my roof compared to the SS3 pro driving lights in the grill (this was before I switched them to 4000K). You can see it's a lot more of a neutral, flat white whereas the 6500K driving lights are tinted more blue. Don't mind the poor aim.



And here's the comparison after switching the driving lights to 4000K.



I would love for Diode Dynamics to revisit their bars and add 4000K/selective yellow options, rather than their current 6000K and dark amber lens options. What's interesting to note is that the stage series bars were DD's first foray into off-road lighting (in 2017 I think?), and as such they started with a lot of off-the-shelf parts. The heatsink extrusions, faceplate design, end caps with breather/wiring ports, and brackets all come from a generic supplier. You can look at GG Lighting and see the same parts. The difference with Diode Dynamics is in the optics.

The SS3 pods (and all the successors) are all clean sheet designs that incorporate a lot of fantastic engineering. Single piece cast optics, Deutsch plugs molded into the chassis, clever heatsinks with a good mass to surface area ratio, selection of chip color temperature, best fog optics in the business, etc. Maybe down the line they'd consider making their stage series bars from scratch too. Or maybe they're keeping them for a while, as they are still very good products (and maybe a good cash cow with low overhead cost).

Don't get me wrong, Vision X is still a decent company- I think several of their offerings are proprietary, but a LOT of them have been open license items that you can get cheaply from several importers. I think I read somewhere that they may have even been the originators of the LED light bar- first used in mining equipment.

You'll have to excuse me, my bias for Diode Dynamics and Baja Designs is showing.

Ok. With your bias, which would you choose for a lightbar in the upper grille? Baja or Diode Designs? 🧐🧐🧐

Diode for dual sport use (on/off road), Baja for maximum output off-road (and maximum dollars).

I have had a set of S2 Pros up front on my runner I installed them a couple of months after buying it. They have great output with the clear lenses but the yellow cuts it down a bit. I cut the grill a tad bit smaller than the face of the front light that way I can install them from the front and not see where the grill is cut. Not the greatest picture but you can get the idea...