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Old 12-08-2021, 11:45 AM #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BorotHex View Post
He’s not trying to hurt your feelings. He’s just saying the next vehicle will need to be massively upgraded. That chip on your shoulder is getting awfully heavy. Might want to address it.

I agree. The 4Runner is way, way behind other vehicles on tech, safety, and options. Toyota either needs to drop the 4Runner or upgrade it to a decent standard that compares to just the basic competitor’s vehicles. It will be very interesting to see what they do.
Rich is a troll. And not a very well informed one, so that's usually where we end up with him randomly choosing a lie and then finding out that it doesn't fit. Like his "must have at least 6500gvwr" requirement and then learning that his 4R is only 6300gvwr.

But, he's not totally wrong that the 4R is WAY behind on drivetrain. And sales are down because of it. I know we can see year over year sales stable or going up a little. But it's a segment where the Wrangler has increased about 5 times in sales while the 4R is about 20% above its 1990s era sales.

And the standard Toyota product frequency is 7 years. Every 4r generation since the first ran for 7 years. This one was a major facelift on the 4th gen not really a new generation. And it's run for 18 years and counting. Toyota has failed IMO. The new tundra is pretty universally seen as a let down from every review I've seen. For me it's the 2017 update that showed up in 2022? And it's really 2023 before they've seriously going to market with it.

Toyota is showing some real missteps here. Due to lack of any meaningful investment in new tech or updating it's vehicles. You can see this in other places too. The RAV4 prime? Brilliant, but they won't sell any because they won't build them. They're rebranding a BYD because they can't build an EV Corolla. They rebranded a BMW because they won't build a 2 door IS500. Toyota does a lot right in the manufacturing process side. They're falling behind in the product side across a lot of segments for lack of innovation.

Last edited by Jetboy; 12-08-2021 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 12-08-2021, 12:03 PM #62
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Sure thing. We all believe you.

Why does the Ecoboost even have a cooling system? Apparently according to the expert it doesn't need one right?

Also, what does the "Engine Overtemp" warning mean on the dash? I assumed it meant over temperature. But since we now know that it doesn't go over temperature I'm kinda at a loss for what that means. Can you help?

This one:

Edit: now the second picture is even more confusing. The new warning says over temperature in full words. But we know that can't happen. So I assume it's a very elaborate practical joke from Ford and should be ignored?
Wonder how reliable that temp guage is right above the overheat warning. It says the engine is cold and the warning says overheating. LOL
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Old 12-08-2021, 12:47 PM #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BorotHex View Post
Heís not trying to hurt your feelings. Heís just saying the next vehicle will need to be massively upgraded. That chip on your shoulder is getting awfully heavy. Might want to address it.

I agree. The 4Runner is way, way behind other vehicles on tech, safety, and options. Toyota either needs to drop the 4Runner or upgrade it to a decent standard that compares to just the basic competitorís vehicles. It will be very interesting to see what they do.
What?
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Old 12-08-2021, 02:42 PM #64
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I wish 6th gen won't have push button start or electronic drivers assist stuff. I'd prefer that it had a built-in winch instead. Maybe front camera would be a good thing to have and that's about it. For people who want all that electronics, small engines and complicated drivetrains - there are plenty of vehicles available on the market with all that stuff. I bought a 4Runner to have simple reliable vehicle which can get me to remote locations off-road and has decent handling on the highway. I hope 6th gen won't be a unibody crossover filled with tech...
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Old 12-08-2021, 04:22 PM #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post

But, he's not totally wrong that the 4R is WAY behind on drivetrain. And sales are down because of it. I know we can see year over year sales stable or going up a little. But it's a segment where the Wrangler has increased about 5 times in sales while the 4R is about 20% above its 1990s era sales.
I'd attest more of that to Jeep marketing and creating the Wrangler to be a real practical vehicle for soccer moms or the others that always wanted one, but it didn't make sense. Since the JKU, Wrangler sales have gone through the roof because of that. It became the next "cool" thing that everyone wanted to drive. You don't see famous people driving 4runners, so nobody cares. That's not Toyota's thing. It's society more than the fact that the 4Runner is outdated. Up until recently with the JL, Jeep tech was non-existent too. Now if you want it on the JL you are paying additional as nothing is standard on a Wrangler. I give so much credit to Jeep for doing what they did. Toyota SUVs in the US will never be as cool to the US population. If Jeep can sell millions of body on frame wranglers with solid axles, traditional 4WD systems, death wobble, and extremely sparse interiors than it's tough to blame the 4Runners fewer sales on that. Also, the 4.0L is fine on power. It's the transmission that needs an update and really the only thing I'd wish to change on the 4R. Jeeps with the Pentastar and the 5 speed were DOGS too until they went to the 8 speed.

In the US, practicality, reliability, etc. goes out the window for stupid expensive features or what Lebron James drives. The 4Runner is a better made vehicle than all of those that Rich listed.

And Rich, a RWD platform is about the only thing similar to those vehicles and the 4runner. Go get your Intelligent 4WD without a low range, unibody construction, independent suspension, and turbocharged crossover like everyone else with no personality and can't think for themselves and enjoy your trip down the Parkway. It's not the point of buying a 4runner and you know that. We don't want the 4Runner to change and get all those features.
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Old 12-08-2021, 05:57 PM #66
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Ford - made in Mexico. If you can get off pavement with Explorer, youíll need to bring parts and recovery gear to get back.
Bronco is better - still sorting out many things that come with ďmade in MexicoĒ.
4Runner is a body on frame truck type of configuration that you can modify and personalize to go to and return from off pavement trips. Or to a mall as most seem to do.
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Old 12-08-2021, 06:19 PM #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinMankat View Post
Ford - made in Mexico. If you can get off pavement with Explorer, youíll need to bring parts and recovery gear to get back.
Bronco is better - still sorting out many things that come with ďmade in MexicoĒ.
4Runner is a body on frame truck type of configuration that you can modify and personalize to go to and return from off pavement trips. Or to a mall as most seem to do.

Where a vehicle is made is irrelevant. Total quality is a function of engineering. Tools are the same. Automatic torquing from a tool is the same. Itís 100% engineering.
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Old 12-08-2021, 06:25 PM #68
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In the US, practicality, reliability, etc. goes out the window for stupid expensive features or what Lebron James drives. The 4Runner is a better made vehicle than all of those that Rich listed.
Most people donít care if the drivetrain will go 500,000 miles. They want an attractive exterior, comfortable interior, modern gadgets, good economy.

When you look at those wants, 4Runner is way behind.

I donít question which SUV will last longest. With maintenance the 4Runner is the winner. I thought when I bought mine Iíd just drive it till the wheels fall off, which is a very, very long time. But the archaic and poorly engineered interior alone has caused me to regret the purchase. Thatís not even taking into consideration last in class everything else other than reliability.

If they donít have a huge upgrade this time, theyíre in trouble. I suspect based on how badass the Tundra is that Toyota gets it loud and clear. Iím hopeful.
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Old 12-08-2021, 08:22 PM #69
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Why did you buy a 4Runner from the start?

Did you not apply the same amount of research then?

Itís the wrong vehicle for mpg and power.
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Old 12-08-2021, 09:03 PM #70
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Iím not really sure whatís wrong with the interior of the 4Runner. Itís comfortable, has knobs in all the right place! Lol, I even have heated seats. Iím not really sure what else I would need in a vehicle. I donít get people that are surprised at what the 4Runner isnít good at when they knew what they were getting. The 4Runner is a truck not a unibody.


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Old 12-08-2021, 09:29 PM #71
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Why did you buy a 4Runner from the start?

Did you not apply the same amount of research then?

Itís the wrong vehicle for mpg and power.

Yeah everyone is stupid except you.
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Old 12-08-2021, 09:37 PM #72
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Me thinks Borothex=RichinRidgewood
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Old 12-09-2021, 09:53 AM #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BorotHex View Post
Most people don’t care if the drivetrain will go 500,000 miles. They want an attractive exterior, comfortable interior, modern gadgets, good economy.

When you look at those wants, 4Runner is way behind.

I don’t question which SUV will last longest. With maintenance the 4Runner is the winner. I thought when I bought mine I’d just drive it till the wheels fall off, which is a very, very long time. But the archaic and poorly engineered interior alone has caused me to regret the purchase. That’s not even taking into consideration last in class everything else other than reliability.

If they don’t have a huge upgrade this time, they’re in trouble. I suspect based on how badass the Tundra is that Toyota gets it loud and clear. I’m hopeful.
What is it last in class in? I actually do want to know, not trying to be a jerk. Your likeness to the interior is subjective. Personally, I love the interior in my 4R. It looks great (again, my opinion) and it has actual buttons. It's simple and that's what I like. The TRD seats are sharp looking and are comfy and it has tons of space inside. Could the stereo be better? Sure. Could the UI be better? Sure, but they upgraded that in recent years at the same time Jeep did. Those things are not really important to me and regardless that's what the aftermarket is for. I have yet to get the desire to spend the money in those areas which means it's not as bad as people on forums make it out to be.

When I had my JKU the first thing I wanted to do was upgrade the speakers as they were really that bad. A JLU Wrangler of comparable price ($43k was sticker on my ORP), so a Sport S, has so much worse "stock" components than my 4R with candles for headlights, horrible speakers, basic Uconnect, no tech at all, cloth seats etc. and is much smaller inside and not as comfortable to drive. Not to mention leaky roofs, death wobble, overall FCA quality, etc.

Rich is stirring the pot by comparing a 4R to a Lincoln or Explorer, but when you compare a 4R to it's actual competition for the price it doesn't miss the mark at all aside from the outdated 5 speed trans which, again, gives reliability by being tried and true for so long. I'm getting 17.5 MPG in my 4Runner and I got 18.5 in my JKU and a little more in my wife's grand cherokees. Not much off the mark there either, especially when you consider the 4R is much bigger inside, more practical, and 1000% more reliable. It's an easy trade off.
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Old 12-09-2021, 10:29 AM #74
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is rich a troll sometimes (Like 90% of the time): yes
do his threads generate interesting discussion and different points: yes
do said threads generate lots of posts / views: yes
will you laugh at his threads: yes

trolls play a vital role in the forum ecosystem. good trolling will generate views and create some interesting threads. interesting content keeps people coming back. just like any ecosystem, a balance is required and the trolls must be kept in check

sure people will get rustled jimmies now and then, but you can't deny, you click on every richinridgewood thread
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Old 12-09-2021, 11:12 AM #75
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What is it last in class in? I actually do want to know, not trying to be a jerk. Your likeness to the interior is subjective.
Itís way behind in most areas and honestly it seems like common sense that I donít have enough time to argue on behalf of.

The interior is garbage. Mine pops and rattles on flat pavement, but all over the interior on bumps. My sunroof came with multiple bolts stripped in the rail mounting it to the car. Had to have the entire thing replaced, and now it pops even more. Itís just a junk interior like nothing Iíve ever seen before. Frighteningly poor engineering.

But as I said in another thread, I have been in two other Toyotas recently and they are even worse. Toyotas are just noisy and people like me think they sound like junk. I have not been in a Tundra though, so it may be better.
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