kdss or not, a set of 5100 alone will help the vehicle feel more planted and less prone to nose dive under hard braking. in stock form, it's fine as long as you know what the vehicle's limitations are. the tires could so be improved ---- the stock ORP tires are terrible.

i've been dailying my ORP for a month now. i choose to drive my ORP over my sedan on most occasions since I dont have to worry about watching out for potholes and/or bumps. having a higher seating position is def a plus since everyone seems to be driving around with lifted 2500 HDs around where i am.

Potholes and higher driver's position are lot of the reasons I can't ever see owning a "car".

I’ve daily driven all of my 4Runners. My stock 2018 ORP with KDSS is a pleasure to drive on and off road. Compared to my 2000 3rd Gen it handles curvy mountain roads with no lean.

Exactly what I like to hear .

I own a 2016 BMW M235, lowered, and making around 450hp. The car rides tight, handles very well, and is rather quick. My wife daily drives a 2020 ORP (no KDSS) that we've made to look like a TRD Pro. We both absolutely love it. Even though the 4Runner drives nothing like my M235, I really enjoy driving it.

As others noted, the 4Runner does lean and nose dive and it's on-road handling limits are hilariously bad. Braking is pretty dismal too on wet pavement with AT tires. Admittedly, that does make me rather nervous as you really need to be aware of the on-road limitations of these vehicles, especially with AT tires. If the 4runner was mine, I'd definitely do the Bilstein 5100 setup. I passed on the KDSS because fixing them is rather expensive and seems to be the most common failure point in these supremely reliable trucks.

Lastly, the MPGs are dismal. If Toyota would have direct injected the 4.0 a decade ago, added the 8AT from the Lexus products, and added common creature comforts (one touch 3 flash turn signals, auto headlights, auto climate in all models), they'd have one hell of a truck that should get 20+% better mpgs, would be 15-20% quicker, and even more desirable. They have all these parts in their parts bin, but they're too damn lazy and conservative. That's Toyota's biggest downfall, IMO.

Thanks for the input. I have driven nothing but older full size 4x4 pickups in addition to our 4Runner, so not expecting miracles on a newer 4Runner. Have also read all the reviews, including the recent dropping of it from Consumer Reports coveted "Recommended" rating it's enjoyed for years. I like the way our 4Runner handles and was hoping a new one wouldn't be a downgrade.

Toyota probably figures any upgrade to the current design of the 4Runner couldn't pay for itself. It's already a hit, and reputation for an expensive vehicle and maybe they think they can't ask much more and don't need to sink more into it, until the eventual Gen 6. Even dropping from the CR Recommended list didn't seem to phase sales.

Agreed, it just bothers me they take the "this sh!t sells itself" approach with most of their vehicles. While true, it's lazy. I don't expect or want them to be some car "tech" company like what the Germans, Telsa, and Ford are striving to become. That too is problematic. Beyond reliability, Toyota/Lexus doesn't strive to be class leading.

With that said, I love the old school design and overall feel of our 4Runner. While totally plastic-fantastic all throughout the inside, it's very well put together, solid, and the plastic wears really well.

I am astounded by the prices people are paying now though. I don't think any new ORP is worth more than $40K for what you get. It's pretty damn basic compared to it's class. We paid $38.5K for our 2020 ORP with a moonroof back in July 2020. Carmax is selling these things for $48K+ used for 2019+. Bonkers.

I have a TRD ORP with KDSS and I love the way it handles. I waited months till I found a test drive with KDSS because I hated the SR5 I tested. After months I finally found a KDSS equipped model and it was a night and day difference.

I think the fact that all the other companies are in a race to see who can put the most sophisticated, luxurious interiors in their cars, while the 4Runner remains more utilitarian, which doesn't mean the Toyota is bad, just not as fancy by today's standards. Plastics should be quality and fit well, but I actually find all this "soft touch" crap in some interiors attracts dirt and harder to clean on things that you touch a lot! One thing Toyota IS bad about and should change immediately is the quality of their frame paint jobs. We live in San Francisco where road salt isn't a problem, but have seen enough posts from people that live in snow states who's frames on 5th gens look scary rusty. This B.S. started almost 15 YEARS ago with the earl Tacos, Tundras and Sequoias! C'MON, Toyota!

These current prices are killing us...I decided to look at a 5th Gens after my wife said no way we're buying a 10 year old car after I had been looking for a good 4th Gen 4Runner for a few months. This has happened just as the market for used cars exploded, lucky us .

All this talk about low parking structures. You must realize some of these were build in the 60'S and that era of auto you had to crawl into the driver seat.

I Have a Uncle that lives in San Jose , I make a trip once a month form LA to visit him.
He refuses to ride in my 4 Runner as he calls it "that bucket of bolts" so we end up taking his car into the city ( He is 93 so no driver license, I drive).
It's a 1994 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham. Try To valet this tank at the Warf. I feel like Tony Soprano when I pull up. But Its always parked in front.
This thing is the length of my Suburban but it rides like a dream and gets 10 MPG.
San Francisco is not a drivers town that's why they have cable cars.


If you want a daily driver buy a Toyota Corolla or something small. what you save in gas will make the payments and insurance in this little car. plus save wear and tear on your 4X4 and resale is good but you won't look as COOL driving it.

Also Top off your fuel tank In Santa Nella before heading south you never know what's going to happen on the Grape Vine

Unrelated to anything, but this has been a very entertaining and conversational thread. A rare find in today's 'everyone's a genius/master/savant with a keyboard and you're dumb' environment. A lot of differing viewpoints and perspectives have been shared constructively. And props to the OP for engaging with and appreciating the myriad of responses this thread has seen.

It’s a lot better then my fx4 f150 that I came from

LOL, good story! Yeah, whenever we decide to part with our old 4Runner, we might get a car that's more practice for the city. It's hard to imagine driving a car after all these years though, with the less commanding view of the road and traffic, bad pavement and the like. But in the mean time, we still need a vehicle to get to our cabin, and my wife is not comfortable taking our '99 4R with 200K likes on out the 17 miles of dirt.

We've rented a few F-150s for the last few road trips. They are big, comfy, and perfect for that. But for around town or twisty highways, they are not a great choice ;).

Yea, it's killing everybody. Used cars are as much as new, repairs on an out of warranty car are hilariously expensive for anything major...there's no relief.

However, I guess it could be worse. People spend the same amount of money on a Sport Wrangler Unlimited with literally no features and questionable reliability vs a TRDOR. The fact that both are $45k vehicles is absolutely insane to me and it's because they both hold value so well. You want a 1500 pickup truck with 4 doors and 4x4? Good luck getting under $50k for even lower optioned models. Same issue though, they hold value. It's crazy and only getting worse.