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Old 04-22-2022, 07:44 PM #16
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As long as they don't insist on using phone apps to buy coffee
That would tear it for me!
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Old 04-22-2022, 09:02 PM #17
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The article linked mentioned a subscription for heated seats. Subscriptions for things like that are a deal killer for me. Such are optional equipment, and if I paid for that optional equipment, it is mine to use as I please. If I have to pay to use what I already bought, that is criminal on the part of the manufacturer, in my opinion. What is next? Pay to start your car with your own key? Pay to turn on the AM and FM radio? Pay to play your own CD? Pay to roll down your window? Pay to use the heater or AC?

I’m a senior and my ‘12 Subaru Outback and ‘18 SR5 are not connected and very likely will be my last vehicles.
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Old 04-22-2022, 11:52 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekinnee View Post
There's already a subscription for remote start via the Toyota App. It's free at first or for now.
It's not remote start. There is remote start and remote connect; two different things. Remote start is hardware based, remote connect is software. I believe some cars even have an option for one or the other. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

I am going to be honest, the article in the OP is not being completely honest. It's stretching the truth (at least respect to what I know about Toyota's subscription service). It's a problem when media outlets benefit most from clicks, especially since outrage and/or fear tend to drive the most clicks.

From the article:

Brands including Lexus, Toyota, and Subaru invite owners to pay for the convenience of being able to lock or start their cars remotely through an app.

There is nothing crazy here. You can still use your key fob to lock and unlock your car, as you did since the existence of key fobs, and you can continue to use remote start if the feature was installed, whether you subscribe or not. App/software based functions will be part of the suite of things offered for the subscription. Say you're on the 77th floor of a skyscraper and you want to start your car now. You can do it using the app. This was never available before, free or otherwise. As you can probably realize, in order for such a command to go through, there needs to be data sent to the car from some satellite. This is obviously not free. This is my understanding of how this feature is intended to work.

With all that said, it is very possible other manufacturers will be exploiting consumers. But as of this moment, what Toyota is offering does not seem exploitative.

Last edited by Something_Awesome; 04-23-2022 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 04-23-2022, 12:19 AM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexington View Post
Yes I’m aware of the new law that the government is requiring a back door kills switch be put in cars by 2026. That’s another reason.
Not entirely true.
From Snopes:

Rating:
Mixture
About this rating
What's True
A section of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, which passed Congress in December 2021 and has since become law, gave the federal government three years to establish a rule that would require new cars to be “equipped with advanced drunk and impaired driving prevention technology.” However …
What's False
Exactly what that new technology entails has yet to be determined. Furthermore, a host of factors may extend the 2024 deadline for the new rule.
What's Undetermined
There currently is no mention of a "kill switch" that law enforcement could use to "shut your car off."

Does Infrastructure Bill Require Surveillance System in New Vehicles to Track Drivers? | Snopes.com
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Old 04-23-2022, 01:06 AM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectroBoy View Post
Not entirely true.
From Snopes:

Rating:
Mixture
About this rating
What's True
A section of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, which passed Congress in December 2021 and has since become law, gave the federal government three years to establish a rule that would require new cars to be “equipped with advanced drunk and impaired driving prevention technology.” However …
What's False
Exactly what that new technology entails has yet to be determined. Furthermore, a host of factors may extend the 2024 deadline for the new rule.
What's Undetermined
There currently is no mention of a "kill switch" that law enforcement could use to "shut your car off."

Does Infrastructure Bill Require Surveillance System in New Vehicles to Track Drivers? | Snopes.com

The Range Rover’s “Take a break” alert with the coffee cup insults my normal, alert driving. God forbid if it shuts me down on the interstate.


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Old 04-23-2022, 02:51 AM #21
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Apparently there has been a lot of pushback on this subscription idea; so manufacturers are giving it a second thought. They could very well loose sales and all they need is one to not do it to gain sales. Plus it can adversely affect the used car market. The idea is to offer these "options" free for a time - like they do now with the NAV; and then start charging later after the trial period. It would be a deal breaker for me on principal alone.
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Old 04-23-2022, 09:33 AM #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2021nightshade4x4 View Post
The Range Rover’s “Take a break” alert with the coffee cup insults my normal, alert driving. God forbid if it shuts me down on the interstate.
Or crossing a railroad track with a train coming.
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Old 04-23-2022, 09:57 AM #23
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Before long, Zuckerberg will have us driving woke in the left lane.
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Old 04-23-2022, 11:23 AM #24
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I would say that when it comes to the 4Runner, Toyota shot themselves in the foot on this one. I would consider paying the monthly fee to have Remote Start/Remote Connect/Service Connect. But they don't even give me the option on our ORP to pay them more money, it's only available on the Ltd and Pro. Stoopid!
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Old 04-23-2022, 11:46 AM #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Something_Awesome View Post
and you can continue to use remote start if the feature was installed, whether you subscribe or not.
This is not true in my experience at least. Toyota removed my remote start fob capabilities after one year on a brand new 2020 purchase because I wouldn’t sign up for their remote services. Contacted Toyota corporate multiple times and they wouldn’t do anything unless I paid them monthly.
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Old 04-23-2022, 12:23 PM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW89446 View Post
The article linked mentioned a subscription for heated seats. Subscriptions for things like that are a deal killer for me. Such are optional equipment, and if I paid for that optional equipment, it is mine to use as I please. If I have to pay to use what I already bought, that is criminal on the part of the manufacturer, in my opinion. What is next? Pay to start your car with your own key? Pay to turn on the AM and FM radio? Pay to play your own CD? Pay to roll down your window? Pay to use the heater or AC?

I’m a senior and my ‘12 Subaru Outback and ‘18 SR5 are not connected and very likely will be my last vehicles.
If they start charging for an actual feature like heated seats, or god forbid power windows, I think the backlash would be pretty tremendous. Charging for extras like remote start don't seem THAT bad by comparison.
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Old 04-23-2022, 02:20 PM #27
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Quote:
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This is not true in my experience at least. Toyota removed my remote start fob capabilities after one year on a brand new 2020 purchase because I wouldn’t sign up for their remote services. Contacted Toyota corporate multiple times and they wouldn’t do anything unless I paid them monthly.
That's correct, even the remote start with fob is disabled if you don't pay Toyota their annual ransom to keep it activated.
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Old 04-23-2022, 07:17 PM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobS10 View Post
If they start charging for an actual feature like heated seats, or god forbid power windows, I think the backlash would be pretty tremendous. Charging for extras like remote start don't seem THAT bad by comparison.
I think this technology is/will be deployed to the EV market heavily even more in the coming years. A base car that is sold and extras added on for a monthly subscription fee.

If you sell the car, the features of the car go back to base level. If one starts thinking about this it means that someone(s) will have the ability to push these software subscriptions such as GPS, radio, other apps. Not that much of a stretch that abuse can/will happen.
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Old 04-23-2022, 07:34 PM #29
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Quote:
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This is not true in my experience at least. Toyota removed my remote start fob capabilities after one year on a brand new 2020 purchase because I wouldn’t sign up for their remote services. Contacted Toyota corporate multiple times and they wouldn’t do anything unless I paid them monthly.
That means you did not actually have remote start. You had Remote Connect. One is hardware, the other is not. I believe with remote connect, you could in theory start the car from the top of a skyscraper, like I had mentioned in my post. Someone should correct me if I'm wrong. But if this is the case, then it does cost Toyota money to provide this service. If you do not want to subscribe, then you should pay the few hundred dollars (or whatever it costs) and just get Remote Start installed.
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Old 04-23-2022, 08:27 PM #30
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I suspect gradualism involved here also. Add something here, we get used to it. Add another thing next year and we get used to it. And so on. Sort of like putting a frog in a cold pot of water on top of the stove.
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