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Old 05-06-2022, 07:24 PM #31
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How do you check if you have a limited version? As it is always in 4wd/awd
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Old 05-07-2022, 09:50 AM #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWorksInc View Post
So to clear up some confusion, the vehicles being covered outside of the TSB range are likely being individually approved/recommended through TAS and the DSPM. This is something we have run into sometimes when we get a vehicle that has exactly the same issue as described in a TSB but is out of the vehicle range.

As for the new differentials "fixing" the issue? In my experience? It's 50/50, some of them get pretty noisy and a new differential certainly is quieter than before and the customer is usually pretty happy with it; but most of the time you can still hear it a little bit if you're dialed in to that noise (which most people end up doing).

So it becomes this weird grey area where some noise is considered "normal" (because they all do it to some degree) and the best we can do from a warranty standpoint is to make the noise quieter rather than eliminate it.

In all our lifted vehicles we throw a bushing in the differential just to save ourselves the trouble. I don't know why the needle bearing is so noisy; perhaps clearance issues or maybe they need a different style of bearing there?
Does this drown out Scotty Kilmerís engine noise?

I have a similar groan on a 2005 Honda Accord with 5 spd manual trans. Keep thinking itís a wheel bearing as the sound is tied to road speed. Wondering if I have a similar situation where the CV shafts go into the transmission?
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Old 05-07-2022, 12:09 PM #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWorksInc View Post
So to clear up some confusion...

I don't know why the needle bearing is so noisy; perhaps clearance issues or maybe they need a different style of bearing there?
I was looking up that bearing part is a different manufacturer ..?
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Old 05-07-2022, 01:27 PM #34
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Originally Posted by catrains View Post
I was looking up that bearing part is a different manufacturer ..?
Couldn't tell you, there's a couple reasons that they could have switched manufacturers; supply issues, better price, said manufacturer better met their desired specifications, etc.

So it's possible the new one is "better" but that's a bit above my pay grade as they say.
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Old 05-07-2022, 07:59 PM #35
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Curious. I have a Ď22 limited with 1500 miles. At 30-40 mph up a slight grade there is a groan and vibration I can feel in my feet. If I take my foot off the gas it disappears. Is this what you guys are experiencing with the needle bearings?

It is subtle enough I know it is going to be a pita to get the dealer to repro.


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Old 05-07-2022, 09:11 PM #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve40th396 View Post
How do you check if you have a limited version? As it is always in 4wd/awd
This isn't an issue on limited models. This bearing is between the carrier housing and the axle shaft. In 4wd the shaft and carrier rotate together at the same speed so in effect the bearing is not used almost ever. It generally never spins. And it effectively never spins at speed. So it should never be a problem on limited models.
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Old 05-07-2022, 09:16 PM #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
This isn't an issue on limited models. This bearing is between the carrier housing and the axle shaft. In 4wd the shaft and carrier rotate together at the same speed so in effect the bearing is not used almost ever. It generally never spins. And it effectively never spins at speed. So it should never be a problem on limited models.
I was under the impression that the Limited front differential was a different type. Since Limited's are AWD/4WD all the time..
Limited front diff also uses less oil. So, I am learning, I honestly thought they were different differentials up front, compared to all the other trim levels in the 4runner.
I am learning, so be gentle..
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Old 05-07-2022, 09:26 PM #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve40th396 View Post
I was under the impression that the Limited front differential was a different type. Since Limited's are AWD/4WD all the time..
Limited front diff also uses less oil. So, I am learning, I honestly thought they were different differentials up front, compared to all the other trim levels in the 4runner.
I am learning, so be gentle..
The difference between them is on the passenger side. They don't have a disconnect mechanism like the part time models do. Basically it's a dog clutch and a shift mechanism that slides the collar to engage or disengage the passenger side from the diff. So when in 2hi the drivers side shaft spins at full road speed. (Roughly 6-800 RPMs). And the shaft freewheels inside the diff that's not spinning. So that drivers side shaft spins in the needle bearing at high speed. But the bearing isn't actually in the housing. It's in the carrier. So if the diff is spinning the bearing ends up being stationary relative to the axle stub shaft and the carrier. I think the limited has the bearing, but it basically never goes bad.

On the passenger side they use a similar bearing on both the limited and the rest of the models. And it is fixed in the housing so it always spins on all models. But that one is a big roller bearing. It's similar to a wheel bearing on a small car. It's way overkill. And rarely ever wears out. I've never heard of one going bad.

Hope that kinda helps. No problem being new. Everyone was once. It's really hard to explain this without seeing one torn apart so maybe my explanation doesn't make sense anyway.
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Old 05-07-2022, 09:57 PM #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
The difference between them is on the passenger side. They don't have a disconnect mechanism like the part time models do. Basically it's a dog clutch and a shift mechanism that slides the collar to engage or disengage the passenger side from the diff. So when in 2hi the drivers side shaft spins at full road speed. (Roughly 6-800 RPMs). And the shaft freewheels inside the diff that's not spinning. So that drivers side shaft spins in the needle bearing at high speed. But the bearing isn't actually in the housing. It's in the carrier. So if the diff is spinning the bearing ends up being stationary relative to the axle stub shaft and the carrier. I think the limited has the bearing, but it basically never goes bad.

On the passenger side they use a similar bearing on both the limited and the rest of the models. And it is fixed in the housing so it always spins on all models. But that one is a big roller bearing. It's similar to a wheel bearing on a small car. It's way overkill. And rarely ever wears out. I've never heard of one going bad.

Hope that kinda helps. No problem being new. Everyone was once. It's really hard to explain this without seeing one torn apart so maybe my explanation doesn't make sense anyway.
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
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Old 05-08-2022, 07:35 AM #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
The difference between them is on the passenger side. They don't have a disconnect mechanism like the part time models do. Basically it's a dog clutch and a shift mechanism that slides the collar to engage or disengage the passenger side from the diff. So when in 2hi the drivers side shaft spins at full road speed. (Roughly 6-800 RPMs). And the shaft freewheels inside the diff that's not spinning. So that drivers side shaft spins in the needle bearing at high speed. But the bearing isn't actually in the housing. It's in the carrier. So if the diff is spinning the bearing ends up being stationary relative to the axle stub shaft and the carrier. I think the limited has the bearing, but it basically never goes bad.

On the passenger side they use a similar bearing on both the limited and the rest of the models. And it is fixed in the housing so it always spins on all models. But that one is a big roller bearing. It's similar to a wheel bearing on a small car. It's way overkill. And rarely ever wears out. I've never heard of one going bad.

Hope that kinda helps. No problem being new. Everyone was once. It's really hard to explain this without seeing one torn apart so maybe my explanation doesn't make sense anyway.
Thnx. Makes allot of sense..
So, I guess the only way to tell if the Limited versions have a bearing issue is to physically try and move the drivers side shaft?
The company that makes the replacement for the bearing says theirs does not work in the Limited AWD versions.
So, there is a physical difference according to them that hinders their replacement from working in the Limited versions..
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Old 05-08-2022, 03:27 PM #41
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So, if I was buying a new 4Runner part of my negotiation would be replace this bearing with an ECGS before I take delivery, at your/Toyota's expense, and I will be there to watch!
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Old 05-13-2022, 10:46 AM #42
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noise & vibration

For me, the noise is not as bad as the vibration. Especially the difference between the vibration in 2WD and smoooooth in 4WD. Though.... prior to the first diff change - the cyclical drone was really, really noisy and so noticeable that passengers would comment (and diagnosed by the service manager as "mismatched gears."
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Old 12-22-2023, 12:48 PM #43
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Today i crawled under my 4 Runner to check the cv axle. See link below. I read about the needle bearing and i think mine is starting to make a slight noise.
It's the 2019 Offroad Premium with 40k miles.
What are your experiences:
How much axle play is too much? Or how long should we drive this bearing?
Is there a risk of major damage?

cv axle front diff - YouTube
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Old 12-22-2023, 03:40 PM #44
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Thnx. Makes allot of sense..
So, I guess the only way to tell if the Limited versions have a bearing issue is to physically try and move the drivers side shaft?
The company that makes the replacement for the bearing says theirs does not work in the Limited AWD versions.
So, there is a physical difference according to them that hinders their replacement from working in the Limited versions..
Jetboy has explained the technology well above.
I assume it also has to do with the fact that the limited has permanent all-wheel drive, so the differential always turns. Consequently much less wear on the needle bearing. I am right?
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Old 12-22-2023, 06:33 PM #45
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Jetboy has explained the technology well above.
I assume it also has to do with the fact that the limited has permanent all-wheel drive, so the differential always turns. Consequently much less wear on the needle bearing. I am right?
The company told me they were not the same bearings. Will not work. Limiteds are different.
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