It will be much, much easier to get a Limited (with the Full time 4WD transfer case) and add aftermarket lockers and do a front end conversion. That has been done by a few people.

Agreed.

When it comes time to replace my '17, I will seriously consider that. I'd rather have a limited slip in the rear though, it fits my needs better than a locker.

The downside is the Limited comes with crap I don't want or need: leather seats, sun roof, stuff like that. A lot come with three rows, I know that's an option but a lot of them on the lot have it.

FWIW it's unlikely to ever see a mechanical LSD for the rear diff. The Toyota 8.2 is a relatively rare diff and every vehicle that it comes in that I know of has the auto-LSD function and most also have ATRAC which both offer more traction than a friction based LSD. Not to say that they are the same thing. Just that the electronic system is good enough that there isn't enough market for a manufacturer like Eaton to build a torsen or clutch based differential for the 8.2 diff carrier. It's a tough sell to the manufacturer based on the volume.

If a rear mechanical lsd is a high priority, the closest you'll get in the Toyota family is going to be a Rav4 Adventure or Limited trim. Those have an active torque vectoring rear differential, so still not a traditional LSD, but arguably a lot better for slippery highway duty. Ironically in some sense, the Lexus IS350awd has the drivetrain you want: torsen center differential and rear torque vectoring awd. I owned one. It was remarkably good on bad roads. Probably the best system I've owned for snow and ice. It's too bad it's never made it into any of their SUVs. I think there's a rwd based lexus crossover in the works that might adopt the IS/GS awd system that could be really good for an all around vehicle.

I love driving my wife’s limited. Say what you want!! Probably never will need to test the full capability of the full time AWD but nice to have it in the back pocket. Might be narrow thinking but a factor was it shares the most with the GX/Prado platform that has been used and abused throughout the world without the premium gas tag.

On a side note, if they had a pro with ventilated seats….she may have picked that one to be our concrete princess since they look badass!!!

My primary vehicle is my wife’s Limited


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I think I covered the "why not another GX" separately, but for me it was: the Limited:
- 300lbs lighter
- Less luxury crap I don't need and cheaper to maintain (electronic shocks, rear air bags, etc, on the Lexus get pricey)
- More storage/utility and no forced 3rd row
- On balance I'd prefer a Toyota badge vs Lexus re: "under the radar"
It was a close call though.

You almost got there
That's like saying "I love riding my FRIEND's moped"

I'll proudly say my Limited is mine

All your points are valid for a 4runner limited vs a GX.

Why the G Wagon then? as it is closer to a GX than a 4R

My POV on the Gwagen is that it's a think layer on a near military-grade rig. I love things that are 'over built'. I will never get the sound of the doors closing out of my head. It's irrational

Then I see all the house-wife's driving them and reconsider. And the current 2X markup. But, I gotta dream.

You're absolutely right, we'll never see this. The brake based traction control (Auto-LSD, ATRAC) is "good enough."

I just like the idea of a computer controlled clutch type LSD better. It sends the power to the wheel with traction. The brake based traction control slows the wheel that's slipping. It uses the brakes to move forward, which is just backwards in my mind... I'd rather use power to move forward.

Again, I know brake based traction control works. It's worked for me. It's good enough.

FYI, the Highlander has a similar system. Seems like it's something they could use in the Limited.

I'd want some changes to this in a more off-road oriented vehicle like the 4Runner. I'd certainly want some manual control. The new Bronco has an automatic mode (it switches between 2WD and AWD when it senses loss of traction) and a manual mode (it stays in AWD). That would be a requirement. I'd want the 2WD mode to be rear wheel drive though, not front. Obviously it needs a transfer case lock and rear diff lock as well. You get the idea.

Perhaps some trim levels like the Limited could have this, while the TRD versions stay the way they are.

The quote came from here:

Toyota All-Wheel Drive Systems Explained: How They Work

I don't think the Highlander lsd is very compatible with a solid axle. Physically it's pretty big so it would be hard to fit. It probably could be done. Most likely would be a torsen style like the Detroit/Eaton trutrac. Those work really well for an LSD. I had one installed on the front of a Toyota pickup along with a rear locker. Interestingly - functionally it was very similar in feel to brake based traction control. I do think the two would work really nicely together as well.

The bronco system is a Bosch torque on demand transfer case most likely. They work well. But they don't meet Toyota's durability requirements. The engagement is clutch based for the front and isn't able to handle heavy use. That's why it voids the warranty to use a snow plow on any f150 with the TOD transfer case. If you get the plow package it removes the TOD transfer case. To compare how Toyota specs their stuff the new tundra transfer case is a size category up from what Ford uses on the F250. Here's a picture below. I know it's a tundra. But the main takeaway is Toyota uses a higher durability level and the TOD Bosch probably doesn't meet the standard. At least not for a bof SUV.

I have the same system a the Highlander in my RX. Works seamlessly for a highway car. It has a locking center diff you can engage and I've done some snow drifting and can verify it does fully lock up. But the whole system is really light duty compared to what's under a 4Runner.

My guess is that no new AWD systems are in the works or ever well be. EVs are the future. What we have now is probably the last generation of AWD systems that aren't EV drive systems.

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Yes, they'd have to beef the Highlander system up a bit to make it suitable for a 4Runner. I should have added that to the section about the changes I'd want in a more off-road oriented vehicle like the 4Runner.

Toyota is fully capable of bringing a system like the Bronco's up to their reliability standards. It might take a couple years to get the bugs out, but they could do it, pretty easily I would think.

On the other hand, you're right about EV's being the future. At this point, Toyota is likely going to skip the Bronco system and go straight to the Rivian system. Put an electric motor at each corner, have it up high and use portal axles, and you'd be invincible.

You also mentioned the Torsen style diff. One thing they could do in the meantime would be to use the Torsen center diff from the Limited in the TRD models. It's strong enough and meets the reliability standards. You have the option to lock or unlock, you don't have that option with the part time system in the TRD models. I'd much rather have the option than not.

I'd like so see a lockable Torsen rear diff as well. But we all know this isn't going to happen.

I bought my limited for the fact of its reliability. It will never rock climb or push through a swamp. But, it will see muddy off roads in the country and or snow. It will handle that very well in toyota fashion.
Leather seats, cooled/heated (venting type) are very nice too.
Other than that, I didnt like most of the bumpers on the regular runners.. Some look great when painted black or dark. Personal preference.

Or for those who live in shit weather climates, and require the full time all wheel drive with winter rubber 6+ months of the year.