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Old 04-05-2022, 08:04 PM #16
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2013 4runner well the calipers are binding . the brake fluid is changed . also the rust disc has an issue .
when the rims older fall off the wheel weights ..
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Old 04-05-2022, 09:57 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Bronson View Post

With respect to brakes, rotors really don't warp. Over time, pad material imbeds itself in the face of the rotor. This material then create a grabbing point on the rotor by the pads. This grabbing creates a pulsating sensation often times referred to as a warped rotor.

There are basically three options here:

1) Bed the brakes. Being soft of the brakes all the time compounds this problem. Occasionally (once every three months or so), the brakes need to worked hard 3 to 5 nearly successive times to burn off that pad material on the rotor. In my cars and the 4Runner, I do 3-5 nearly successive 45 to 5mph panic braking, never fully stopping, and giving adequate time to cool the brakes after doing the panic braking. I typically do this in a vacant area.

2) Machine the rotor. If the pad material is really imbeded or is widespread, then you may need to machine the rotor to remove the material.

3) Replace the rotor and pads.
I agree. Brake pads are designed to transfer the pad material onto the rotor and back onto the pad, again and again. It is not a simple pad slowly wearing over time phenomena. The reason you say the rotor warping comes and goes is exactly because pad material has stuck to one area more than another and then later it gets cleaned away. The worst thing for rotors is to have the hot pads squeeze against them at a stoplight as this will leave an imprint of pad material in one spot. Try to slowly roll a bit at every stop to avoid that uneven transfer.
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Old 04-06-2022, 05:26 PM #18
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I've had the same issue on my 2018 SR5 (55-60 mph on certain roads under certain circumstances). I went back and forth with the dealer (rotated, balanced, road force, etc.). The shop manager at the dealer even drove down the roads I was experiencing the vibration on with me. We could not replicate it. He made it sound like it happens on certain roads, that maybe are black-topped instead of concrete. I do not think this should happen, no matter what road I drive on.
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Old 04-06-2022, 06:40 PM #19
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Originally Posted by Gclark949 View Post
I agree. Brake pads are designed to transfer the pad material onto the rotor and back onto the pad, again and again. It is not a simple pad slowly wearing over time phenomena. The reason you say the rotor warping comes and goes is exactly because pad material has stuck to one area more than another and then later it gets cleaned away. The worst thing for rotors is to have the hot pads squeeze against them at a stoplight as this will leave an imprint of pad material in one spot. Try to slowly roll a bit at every stop to avoid that uneven transfer.

Maybe some are. But this “adhesive” property creates a varnish on rotors that results in an uneven surface.

Most drivers are not going to creep at each light because they “shouldn’t have to do that” to have consistent pad performance through the life of the pad. It’s 2022 and really, we shouldn’t have to do that.

Also, good luck getting driving instructors to agree on the creep. Your car should be securely stopped at traffic controlled intersections, when indicated. We shouldn’t be subjected to this mutually exclusive, false dichotomy of being EITHER 1.) safely and securely stopped, or 2.) enjoying consistent brake performance.


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Old 04-07-2022, 10:41 AM #20
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I've had my 2013 Trail for the last 7 years. It developed a horrible brake shake at higher speeds. Found out it was the rotors and now smooth as butta.
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Old 04-07-2022, 12:17 PM #21
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My 2020 has 36k miles. I only get the shake when the truck sits for a couple days without being driven; as if the tires maybe flat spot. 5 minutes of driving and the shake is gone.

I did also have a little shake as my previous Geolandar MT's wore a little, but very minor only sometimes above 70mph.
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Old 04-07-2022, 01:05 PM #22
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Rotors can warp. It's not the only cause of brake induced vibration. But anyone with a dial indicator can measure runout and thickness variation and verify how much if any rotor runout exists when cool. It's much harder to measure runout on a hot rotor where it tends to have runout because of the thermal expansion. A weak or thin spot or a small initial runout allows the rotor to expand by becoming wavy under high heat rather than compressing in its original plane like we want it to. My rotors on my 2015 had about .010 runout and had noticeable brake induced wheel shimmy under heavy sustained braking down mountain grades and at low speeds all the time. I had no issues until after a dealer brake job and this started within maybe 5k miles. Dealer used the cheap pads despite my direction to use the original type.

I replaced the rotors with new OEM and new OEM pads and have had no issues since. Runout on new OEM rotors was less than .001. Both measured on the hub.

FWIW - I had not steering wheel flutter while driving. Only under braking. So the brakes can cause issues, but it's unlikely to be the problem if you have steering wheel flutter while not braking.
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Old 04-07-2022, 01:51 PM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
Rotors can warp. It's not the only cause of brake induced vibration. But anyone with a dial indicator can measure runout and thickness variation and verify how much if any rotor runout exists when cool. It's much harder to measure runout on a hot rotor where it tends to have runout because of the thermal expansion. A weak or thin spot or a small initial runout allows the rotor to expand by becoming wavy under high heat rather than compressing in its original plane like we want it to. My rotors on my 2015 had about .010 runout and had noticeable brake induced wheel shimmy under heavy sustained braking down mountain grades and at low speeds all the time. I had no issues until after a dealer brake job and this started within maybe 5k miles. Dealer used the cheap pads despite my direction to use the original type.

I replaced the rotors with new OEM and new OEM pads and have had no issues since. Runout on new OEM rotors was less than .001. Both measured on the hub.

FWIW - I had not steering wheel flutter while driving. Only under braking. So the brakes can cause issues, but it's unlikely to be the problem if you have steering wheel flutter while not braking.

Unless a stuck caliper or failing ABS pump.


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Old 04-07-2022, 01:54 PM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2021nightshade4x4 View Post
Maybe some are. But this “adhesive” property creates a varnish on rotors that results in an uneven surface.

Most drivers are not going to creep at each light because they “shouldn’t have to do that” to have consistent pad performance through the life of the pad. It’s 2022 and really, we shouldn’t have to do that.

Also, good luck getting driving instructors to agree on the creep. Your car should be securely stopped at traffic controlled intersections, when indicated. We shouldn’t be subjected to this mutually exclusive, false dichotomy of being EITHER 1.) safely and securely stopped, or 2.) enjoying consistent brake performance.
In a perfect world, yes, but in order for brakes to work, they need to create friction. Friction = wear and high friction = stronger braking performance. Same thing applies to tires. If you want excellent braking and/or good traction, then the brakes and tires will wear much faster and the will brakes dust. You can't have it both ways. Wear generally = better performance.

Heavy braking and then coming to a full stop with the brakes fully compressed will definitely lead to uneven transfer of pad material baking into the rotor face. No car or truck is immune to this, even cars with $15000 carbon ceramic brakes.

As noted, it is good practice to bed the brakes on a routine basis to heat up the brakes and burn/sweep that excess pad material off the rotor. If you let it go too long, the pad material can get really inconsistent and bedding could actually make it worse thus requiring machining of the rotor or replacement.

Last edited by Charles Bronson; 04-07-2022 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 04-07-2022, 02:11 PM #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2021nightshade4x4 View Post
Unless a stuck caliper or failing ABS pump.


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Yeah. If the brake pads were dragging on the rotor it might cause a problem. The fact that so many times that this happens right off the dealer lot tends to point me in the direction of it being a combination of:

Unbalanced tires - even slightly out of balance

Suspension design that is sensitive to harmonic frequency at a similar frequency as the tire rotation at 60mpg. I think this is the real underlying culprit, the combination of geometry and bushing resistance all work together for some reason to be very sensitive to shimmy and feedback.

and a steering rack design that is prone to a lot of feedback as a result of relatively low internal dampening.
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Old 04-09-2022, 06:31 PM #26
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That shaky rear view camera is a deal breaker.
CutthroatSlam, not sure what you mean by that. Please help me understand, maybe I'm missing something. I'm happy with the exchange until now. Had an update installed yesterday and identified the clock spring/ribbon being the issue.
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Old 04-09-2022, 09:34 PM #27
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colorado25 member does not do the work/inspect/investigate the runner.
he goes to a mechanic monkey and then the monkey throws parts on the runner and he did no inspections of the defects just throw parts on the runner ......................colorado25 pays a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
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Old 04-10-2022, 04:03 PM #28
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I would say if you're unhappy with wheel shake/vibration, don't bother looking into balance beads.

Having run them in my LT35x12.5R17 Toyo Open Country R/T's for years and close onto 30k, I would say that in terms of actually balancing the tire they work very well. But they do come with cavets/quirks, one of them being that if you hit on-ramps/curves on acceleration or hard enough when you're driving that the beads will "slosh" to the sidewalls and cause an imbalance. You can "reset" this issue by either slowing down below about 25mph and then doing a straight line acceleration, or just driving in a relatively straight line for a while at higher speeds. It's not a big issue, but it is an annoying one and one I imagine would drive you nuts.
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